SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:37 am

el kabong wrote:Biblical Archaeology
http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/biblical-archaeology.htm

Biblical archaeology really begins with the Sumerian civilization of about 2500 BC. To date, numerous sites and artifacts have been uncovered that reveal a great deal about the ancient Mesopotamian culture. One of the most dramatic finds is the Sumerian King List, which dates to approximately 2100 BC. ....................Biblical Archaeology: Ancient Israel
Biblical archaeology then turns to the evidence for the early Israelites. The Merneptah Stele (also known as the Israel Stele) is an upright stone slab measuring over seven feet tall that contains carved hieroglyphic text dating to approximately 1230 BC. The Egyptian stele describes the military victories of Pharaoh Merneptah and includes the earliest mention of "Israel" outside the Bible. Although the specific battles covered by the stele are not included in the Bible, the stele establishes extra-biblical evidence that the Israelites were already living as a people in ancient Canaan by 1230 BC. In addition to the Stele, a large wall picture was discovered in the great Karnak Temple of Luxor (ancient Thebes), which shows battle scenes between the Egyptians and Israelites. These scenes have also been attributed to Pharaoh Merneptah and date to approximately 1209 BC. The Karnak Temple also contains records of Pharaoh Shishak's military victories about 280 years later. Specifically, the Shishak Relief depicts Egypt's victory over King Rehoboam in about 925 BC, when Solomon's Temple in Judah was plundered. This is the exact event mentioned in 1 Kings 14 and 2 Chronicles 12.

Outside Egypt, we also discover a wealth of evidence for the early Israelites. The Moabite Stone (Mesha Stele) is a three-foot stone slab discovered near Dibon ,East of the Dead Sea, that describes the reign of Mesha, King of Moab, around 850 BC. According to Genesis 19, the Moabites were neighbors of the Israelites. The stele covers victories by King Omri and Ahab of Israel against Moab, and Mesha's later victories on behalf of Moab against King Ahab's descendants (2 Kings 3). The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser is a seven-foot, four-sided pillar of basalt that describes the victories of King Shalmaneser III of Assyria. Dated to about 841 BC, the Obelisk was discovered in the ancient palace of Nimrud and shows Israel's King Jehu kneeling before the Assyrian king in humble tribute (see 2 Kings 9-10).


Biblical Archeology

http://biblicalarcheology.net/

Scientists Finally Admit Parting of the Red Sea Was Possible



http://www.bib-arch.org/ cheers

lilly, what makes you think you can thwart the Plan of YHWH and Yahshua? That is rather bold isn't it?

Jesus as Rabbi in the Fourth Gospel
http://www.ibr-bbr.org/IBRBulletin/BBR_1998/BBR_1998_07_Kostenberger_JesusRabbiJohn.pdf

http://www.vbm-torah.org/

The Rabbis provide excellent interpretation of Torah/Instruction, you do not.

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:38 am

el kabong wrote:
true lilly wrote:......................
But what can I say? What can I do? But 'stick to my guns',
of patience in faith, and keep praying for God's instruction,
in God's good time....and His Grace; that my errors and His
corrections don't cause me to 'fall at the last', but rather,
that they steel me, to better endure and 'run the good race'.


[color=blue]Bless God. Bless The King. Bless The Faithful Servants.
Bless The Lost Who Seek His Way Home.............................

Ahoy, lilly willy, Good News YHWHs Torah/Instruction has been delivered, lo, those many years ago at Mt. Sinai, in the Sinai desert. thumbs up

Torah for all Israelite Nations

http://www.downundertruenameministries.com/uploads/PDF/Torah%20for%20all%20Israelite%20Nations.pdf


In Beresheeth 46:4 Yahuwah tells Israel/Yaakov to go down to Mitzrayim/Egypt in order that Yahuwah can bring to pass the patriarchal promise of physical multiplicity, while Yahuwah promises to be with Yisrael in Mitzrayim.
When Yahuwah is with you, no one can be against you or His plan for your life. Yahuwah also promises to return Israel to Canaan, when He brings them up again from Mitzrayim.
This promise is confirmed to Yisrael in Beresheeth/Genesis 28:15.
INITIAL OFFER
Yisrael was to be set-apart by their prophesied exodus from Egypt, and in order to seal their set-apartness from all nations, they were to be given a Torah or a set of loving instructions.
According to Devarim/Deuteronomy 4:6, all nations would then see that only a wise (spiritual), and understanding people was this GREAT (physical) nation.
Israel was brought forth, and set-apart to shine before men. In like manner Yahushua renewed that call in Mattityahu/Matthew 5:13-14.
Torah would become their wisdom after the presentation of Torah to Yisrael on Horeb.
When Israel obeys Yahuwah’s ways, all nations will confess our greatness and our favour before man and Yahuwah. On Sinai/Horeb Yahuwah betrothed Himself to Yisrael. This betrothal is called an eruzin
............[color=blue]Our sages have taught us that at first Yahuwah revealed, and offered his chesed/grace to the sons of Esau/Edom, as it is written in Devarim/Deuteronomy 33:2. But they rejected Yahuwah, even though He rose up first to offer Torah to Esau.
However Esau rejected the Torah from Sinai, when Yahuwah “rose in Seir” only to be denied.
Then Yahuwah offered the Torah to the rest of the sons of Ishmael symbolized by Mt. Paran, who according to Devarim/Deuteronomy 33:23, also rejected the “shining forth” of Torah from Sinai, even though the manifestation of fire accompanied it, along with myriads of malachim/angels!
“HEBREW-NATIONAL” ADAM
When Edom and Ishmael rejected the Torah, Yahuwah then turned to His second son, the second Adam or national Adam.
That, among a myriad of other reasons is why most of the modern Arabs hate Israel, (both houses) since they rejected the true Word of Yahuwah, which Israel later accepted.
Ultimately the Arabs adopted the false words of a man made deity called Allah.
Not only do Edomites hate Israel for accepting the living oracles, they also hate Israel (Jews and most Christians) for having accepted the “living Torah”, the Messiah Yahushua Himself.
Today’s Muslims have once again rejected the living Torah, (true biblical Yahushua as Yahuwah’s ONLY brought forth SON!) as their Edomite and Ishmaelite forefathers rejected the living oracles shining forth from Sinai.
Even today Muslims claim that Gabriel gave the latter revelation of the Koran, to Mohammed in large part to CORRECT THE ERRORS OF TORAH that the Jews and Christians added when they corrupted the Torah’s truth!
Nothing much has changed in the last 3,500 years....................So any utterance in tongues by the disciples had to be Torah based, and Torah centred, since the returning Israelites had previously accepted the Messiah, the actual living Torah. Yahushua said that He would send the Ruach to bring to all, the exact remembrance of His teachings, which the identical ones are given to Him by His Father Abba-Yahuwah.
So any utterances given in the Ruach, and truly originating from the Ruach, must declare both the King’s resurrection, and His Torah.
The King would not allow the Spirit to utter any tongue other than what was originally uttered by Abba from heaven at Sinai, and by Messiah in Judea while on earth.
So all tongues emanating from the Ruach, must be King centred and Torah regulated!
Tongues were given to renew Torah to Israelites in Yahuwah’s House, who were tarrying in a spirit of anticipation, expectation, and hunger.
That day on Shavuot in 33CE, He did not disappoint His people. The Ruach came to bring scattered Yisrael BACK into the kingdom.
The Ruach came to testify of the true coming kingdom of Yahuwah, when both houses will fully return in repentance, and submission. It is the blood of Messiah, and the Ruach of Messiah that has brought all nations into redeeming grace, and Torah favour, and that enables all its citizens to inherit Yahuwah’s eternal kingdom.
On Shavuot 33 CE the kingdom had begun to be restored. Obviously that task will be done fully by Messiah Himself when He returns, and not before (SEE PART 19 WHEN WILL WE BE ONE? at www.yourarmstoisrael.org ).
./color]

But...here is the great part lilly willy, the Torah was proclaimed publicly to all humankind so that any false prophet would be revealed. thumbs up

http://www.eliyah.com/thescriptures/
Deuteronomy 30:
10if you obey the voice of YHWH your Elohim, to guard His commands and His laws which are written in this Book of the Torah, if you turn back to YHWH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your being. 11“For this command which I am commanding you today, it is not too hard for you, nor is it far off. 12“It is not in the heavens, to say, ‘Who shall ascend into the heavens for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, to say, ‘Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, and cause us to hear it, so that we do it?’ 14“For the Word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart – to do it. 15“See, I have set before you today life and good, and death and evil, 16in that I am commanding you today to love YHWH your Elohim, to walk in His ways, and to guard His commands, and His laws, and His right-rulings. And you shall live and increase, and YHWH your Elohim shall bless you in the land which you go to possess. .....................

As you can see, YHWHs Instruction/orah is availiable, here now, to anyone who seeks. thumbs up

Portal 4 Instruction/Torah:

http://www.vbm-torah.org/
http://www.vbm-torah.org/shemot.htm
http://www.vbm-torah.org/devarim.htm

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:39 am

el kabong wrote:
true lilly wrote:
But what can I say? What can I do? But 'stick to my guns',
of patience in faith, and keep praying for God's instruction,
in God's good time....and His Grace; that my errors and His
corrections don't cause me to 'fall at the last', but rather,
that they steel me, to better endure and 'run the good race'.


Bless God. Bless The King. Bless The Faithful Servants.
Bless The Lost Who Seek His Way Home.
...now go PREACH all your RELIGION of MYTHS and outright LIES,
at CORI & TINTIN, 'they' LUUVVVV 'that' SHIT...

er, lilly willy, it appears to be YOU 'preaching' 'lies & myths'. thumbs up

Where did Moses and the Hebrews receive YHWHs Torah/Instruction?

At Mt. Sinai in the Sinai Desert.

It was received publicly so that no-one could claim otherwise.

This was approximately 3,500 years ago.
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Where did the Hebrews/Israelites go 40 years later?

To Canaan, the Land of Milk and Honey.
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Where is Mt. Zion geographically?

In Jerusalem.
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Is your ego so enormous you call every Rabbi/Teacher of YHWHS Torah/Instruction stupid liars and you 'know' better?

Is your ego so enormous you call all Biblical Archeologists/Linguists Stupid liars and you 'know' better?

If so, do a reality check. thumbs up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpBs8xbG4Rg

[b]Mount Zion


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Zion

Mount Zion (Hebrew: הר צִיּוֹן‎‎, Har Tsion; Arabic: جبل صهيون‎, Jabel Sahyoun) is an elevation west of the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. Today the term refers to a hill outside the Old City, though its biblical identity is unclear.

The Hebrew root of the word "Zion" means "landmark", and is often translated as "fortress", as according to the Book of Samuel it was the location of the Jebusite fortress conquered by King David.

Since the biblical era, the term "Zion" has been a synecdoche referring to the entire city of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel (see, for example, Psalms 69:35). Following this usage, the term is sometimes used to refer to a promised land in general.................

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Tel Aviv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv


Tel Aviv was built on sand dunes in an area usuitable for farming, and maritime commerce was centered in Haifa and Ashdod. Instead, the city developed as a center of business and scientific research.[9] Economic activities account for 17 percent of GDP.[50]


Yoo Towers, a luxury apartment complexThe city has been called a "flourishing technological center" by Newsweek and a "miniature Los Angeles" by The Economist.[9][97] In 1998, the city was described by Newsweek as one of the top 10 most technologically influential cities in the world. Since then, high-tech industry in the Tel Aviv area has continued to develop.[97] The Tel Aviv metropolitan area (including satellite cities such as Herzliya and Petah Tikva) is Israel's center of high-tech, sometimes referred to as Silicon Wadi.[97][98]

Tel Aviv is home to the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange (TASE), Israel's only stock exchange, which has reached record heights since the 1990s.[99] The Tel Aviv Stock exchange has also gained attention for its resilience and ability to recover from war and disasters. For example, the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange was higher on the last day of both the 2006 Lebanon war and the 2009 Operation in Gaza then on the first day of fighting [100] Many international venture-capital firms, scientific research institutes and high-tech companies are headquartered in the city. Industries in Tel Aviv include chemical processing, textile plants and food manufacturers.[9] The city's nightlife, cultural attractions and architecture attract tourists whose spending benefits the local economy.[101]

In 2008, the Globalization and World Cities Study Group and Network (GaWC) at Loughborough University reissued an inventory of world cities based on their level of advanced producer services. Tel Aviv was ranked as a beta+ world city.[10]

According to Forbes, nine of its fifteen Israeli-born billionaires live in Israel; four live in Tel Aviv and its suburbs.[102][103] The cost of living in Israel is high, with Tel Aviv being its most expensive city to live in. According to Mercer, a human resources consulting firm based in New York, as of 2010 Tel Aviv is the most expensive city in the Middle East and the 19th most expensive in the world.[98]

Tel Aviv ranked world's 3rd hottest city for 2011
http://www.jpost.com/Travel/TravelNews/Article.aspx?id=193541

Lonely Planet's Top Cities list describes Israel's most international city as hedonistic, tolerant, cultured, and a truly diverse 21st-century hub.

After scouring the globe for next year’s hottest cities, the editors at travel guide company Lonely Planet released their Top 10 Cities for 2011 on Sunday, listing what it called a “modern Sin City” – Tel Aviv – at No. 3.

Coming in behind New York City and Tangier, Tel Aviv is described as being unified by the religion of hedonism, yet tolerant, cultured and a truly diverse 21st-century hub.

Touching on the city’s wellknown night life, Lonely Planet observes, “There are more bars than synagogues, God is a DJ and everyone’s body is a temple.”

Calling Tel Aviv the most international city in Israel, Lonely Planet points out that the city is home to a large gay community, calling it “a kind of San Francisco in the Middle East.”

Key word: Tolerant thumbs up cheers

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:39 am

el kabong wrote:Jerusalem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem

Jerusalem (Hebrew: יְרוּשָׁלַיִם‎‎ (audio) (help·info), Yerushaláyim, ISO 259-3 Yrušalaym, "Abode of Peace"; Arabic: القُدس (audio) (help·info), al-Quds [al-Sharif], "The Holy Sanctuary")[ii] is the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such.[iii] If the area and population of East Jerusalem is included, it is Israel's largest city[1] in both population and area,[2] with a population of 763,800 residents over an area of 125.1 km2 (48.3 sq mi).[3][4][iv] Located in the Judean Mountains, between the Mediterranean Sea and the northern edge of the Dead Sea, modern Jerusalem has grown far beyond the boundaries of the Old City.

Jerusalem is a holy city to the three major Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In Judaism, Jerusalem has been the holiest city since, according to the Biblical Old Testament, King David of Israel first established it as the capital of the united Kingdom of Israel in c. 1000 BCE, and his son Solomon commissioned the building of the First Temple in the city.[5] In Christianity, Jerusalem has been a holy city since, according to the New Testament, Jesus was crucified in c. 30 CE and 300 years later Saint Helena found the True Cross in the city. In Sunni Islam, Jerusalem is the third-holiest city.[6][7] It became the first Qibla, the focal point for Muslim prayer (Salah) in 610 CE,[8] and, according to Islamic tradition, Muhammad made his Night Journey there ten years later.[9][10] As a result, and despite having an area of only 0.9 square kilometres (0.35 sq mi),[11] the Old City is home to sites of key religious importance, among them the Temple Mount, the Western Wall, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.[12] The oldest part of the city was settled in the 4th millennium BCE, making Jerusalem one of the oldest cities in the world.[13] The old walled city, a World Heritage site, has been traditionally divided into four quarters, although the names used today—the Armenian, Christian, Jewish, and Muslim Quarters—were introduced in the early 19th century.[14] The Old City was nominated for inclusion on the List of World Heritage Sites in Danger by Jordan in 1982.[15]

Today, the status of Jerusalem remains one of the core issues in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, West Jerusalem was among the areas captured and later annexed by Israel, while East Jerusalem was held by Jordan. Israel captured East Jerusalem during the 1967 Six-Day War and subsequently annexed it. Currently, Israel's Basic Law refers to Jerusalem as the country's "undivided capital". The international community has rejected the annexation as illegal and treats East Jerusalem as Palestinian territory held by Israel under military occupation.[16][17][18][19] The international community does not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, and the city hosts no foreign embassies.







The Biblical Chronologist

http://www.biblicalchronologist.org/answers/sinai_location.php

1. Distance from Egypt
The true Mt. Sinai must be located outside of Egypt, but not a great distance away. The Bible records that the Israelites arrived at Sinai 45 days after leaving Egypt. Accounting for days not spent traveling (for example, time spent in battle with the Amalekites at Rephidim), and estimating a pace of 30 miles per day, Mt. Sinai must be no more than 630 miles from Egypt.

Mt. Yeroham is located approximately 150 miles from Egypt. Mt. Yeroham passes this test.


http://www.biblicalchronologist.org/answers/exodus_egypt.php

Conclusion
Evidence for the Exodus from Egypt is plentiful[/b cheers thumbs up


popcorn

[b]One rabbi asserts that the Exodus never happened. What role does archaeology play in verifying Biblical events?


http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48938472.html


A storm of debate has erupted in the Jewish world, following the well-publicized assertion by Rabbi David Wolpe of Los Angeles that "the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way it happened, if it happened at all."

Wolpe made his declaration before 2,000 worshippers at the Conservative Sinai Temple, and the speech was reported on the front page of the Los Angeles Times. The article entitled, "Doubting the Story of Exodus," asserts that archaeology disproves the validity of the Biblical account.

While people don't usually get worked up about archaeology, the debate about archaeology and the Bible is often passionate and vitriolic.

Biblical Archaeology is often divided into two camps: The "minimalists" tend to downplay the historical accuracy of the Bible, while the "maximalists," who are in the majority and are by and large not religious, tend to suggest that archaeological evidence supports the basic historicity of the Bible text.

As a science, we must understand what archaeology is and what it isn't.

Archaeology consists of two components: the excavation of ancient artifacts, and the interpretation of those artifacts. While the excavation component is more of a mechanical skill, the interpretive component is very subjective. Presented with the same artifact, two world-class archaeologists will often come to different conclusions -- particularly when ego, politics and religious beliefs enter the equation.

In the subjective field of Biblical Archaeology, anyone making a definitive statement like "archaeology has proven..." has probably chosen to take sides and is not presenting the whole picture. When Los Angeles Times reporter Teresa Watanabe writes that "the rabbi was merely telling his flock what scholars have known for more than a decade" (emphasis added), she is revealing her anti-Biblical bias..................


What support is there for the claim that God spoke to all the Jewish people at the foot of Mount Sinai?

http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/48943936.html

Who did God give the Torah to at Mount Sinai? Most people reply, "God gave the Torah to Moses."

And what were the Jewish people doing while Moses was receiving the Torah? "Worshipping the Golden Calf."

Correct answers –- but NOT according to the Bible.

The above answers come from Cecil B. DeMille's classic film, "The Ten Commandments." Amazing the impact one movie can have on the Jewish education of generations of Jews. It's a great film, but DeMille should have read the original.

The version found in the Torah is quite different. The Torah's claim is that the entire people heard God speak at Mount Sinai, experiencing national revelation. God did not just appear to Moses in a private rendezvous; He appeared to everyone, some 3 million people. This claim is mentioned many times in the Torah.

[Moses told the Israelites]: 'Only beware for yourself and greatly beware for your soul, lest you forget the things that your eyes have beheld. Do not remove this memory from your heart all the days of your life. Teach your children and your children's children about the day that you stood before the Lord your God at Horev [Mount Sinai]...

God spoke to you from the midst of the fire, you were hearing the sound of words, but you were not seeing a form, only a sound. He told you of His covenant, instructing you to keep the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.' (Deut.4:9-13)

'You have been shown in order to know that God, He is the Supreme Being. There is none besides Him. From heaven he let you hear His voice in order to teach you, and on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words amid the fire.' (Deut. 4:32-36)

Moses called all of Israel and said to them: 'Hear, O Israel, the decrees and the ordinances that I speak in your ears today -- learn them, and be careful to perform them. The Lord your God sealed a covenant with us at Horev [Mount Sinai]. Not with our forefathers did God seal this covenant, but with us -- we who are here, all of us alive today. Face to face did God speak with you on the mountain from amid the fire.' (Deut. 5:1-4)

The Torah claims that the entire Jewish nation heard God speak at Sinai, an assertion that has been accepted as part of their nation's history for over 3,000 years.

DeMille's mistake is such a big deal because the Jewish claim of national revelation, as opposed to individual revelation, is the central defining event that makes Judaism different than every other religion in the world.....................
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SINAI: THE ONLY CLAIM OF NATIONAL REVELATION thumbs up

popcorn

Throughout history, tens of thousands of religions have been started by individuals, attempting to convince people that God spoke to him or her. All religions that base themselves on some type of revelation share essentially the same beginning: a holy person goes into solitude, comes back to his people, and announces that he has experienced a personal revelation where God appointed him to be His prophet.

Would you believe someone who claims God appointed him or her as God's new prophet?Would you believe someone who claims to have received a personal communication from God appointing him or her as God's new prophet?

Maybe He did. Then again, maybe He didn't. One can never know. The claim is inherently unverifiable.

Personal revelation is an extremely weak basis for a religion since one can never know if it is indeed true. Even if the individual claiming personal revelation performs miracles, there is still no verification that he is a genuine prophet. Miracles do not prove anything. All they show -- assuming they are genuine -- is that he has certain powers. It has nothing to do with his claim of prophecy.

Maimonides writes:

Israel did not believe in Moses, our teacher, on account of the miracles he performed. For when one's faith is based on miracles, doubt remains in the mind that these miracles may have been done through the occult and witchcraft...

What then were the grounds of believing him? The revelation on Sinai which we saw with our own eyes, and heard with our own ears, not having to depend on the testimony of others... (Mishna Torah - Foundations of Torah 8:1)


A BOLD PREDICTION


There are 15,000 known religions in all of recorded history. Given this inherent weakness, why do all of them base their claim on personal revelation? If someone wanted their religion to be accepted, why wouldn't they present the strongest, most believable claim possible -- i.e. national revelation! It's far more credible. No one has to take a leap of faith and blindly trust just one person's word. It is qualitatively better to claim that God came to everyone, telling the entire group that so-and-so is His prophet.

Why would God establish His entire relationship with a nation through one man, without any possibility of verification, and still expect this nation to obediently follow an entire system of instructions, based only on blind faith?

Yet, Judaism is the only religion in the annals of history that makes the best of all claims -- that everyone heard God speak. No other religion claims the experience of national revelation. Why?

Furthermore, the author of the Torah predicts that there will never be another claim of national revelation throughout history!

'You might inquire about times long past, from the day that God created man on earth, and from one end of heaven to the other: Has there ever been anything like this great thing or has anything like it been heard? Has a people ever heard the voice of God speaking from the midst of the fires as you have heard and survived?' (Deut. 4:32-33)

Let's consider the option that God did not write the Torah, and its author successfully convinced a group of people to accept a false claim of national revelation. In this book, the author writes a prediction that over the course of history no one will ever make a similar claim. That means if such a claim is ever made at some future time, the prediction will end up being false and his religion is finished.

How could the author include in the book he is passing off as a hoax the prediction that no other person will ever attempt to perpetuate the same hoax when he just made that exact claim? If he could do it, he can be certain that others will too, especially since it is the best possible claim to make. If you are making up a religion, you do not write something you know you cannot predict and whose outcome you would think is guaranteed to be exactly the opposite.

However, aside from the Jewish claim of Mount Sinai, it is a fact that no other nation has ever claimed such a similar national revelation.

Let's summarize two primary questions:

1. Out of 15,000 known religions in recorded history, why is Judaism the only one that claims national revelation, the best of all claims? Why do all other religions base themselves on the inherently weak assertion of personal revelation?

2. If Judaism's claim is indeed an example of a successful hoax that falsely asserts national revelation, the author just got away with passing off the best possible claim, and others will certainly follow suit. Why then would he predict that no one else will ever make a similar claim, a prediction he knows he cannot foresee, and whose outcome is likely to be the exact opposite?

There is one simple answer to both questions. A national revelation -- as opposed to personal revelation -- is the one lie you cannot get away with. It is one event you cannot fabricate. The only way to make this claim is if it actually happened.

If the claim is true, the people will believe it because they are agreeing to something they already know. Either they personally witnessed it, or their ancestors collectively passed down the account as part of their nation's accepted history.

If the claim is false, it's like trying to convince you that God spoke to you or your parents and somehow you never heard of it. No one would ever accept such a claim.

Therefore no other religion has ever made the best of all claims, because it is the one claim that can only be made if it is true. One cannot pass national revelation off as a hoax.

When inventing a religion, the originator must resort to personal revelation, despite its inherent weakness, since it is a claim that is unverifiable. The originator can hope to find adherents willing to take a leap of faith and accept his or her religion. After all, no one can ever know it is a lie. [Of course, no one can know if it's true either.] This simply cannot work with national revelation since it's the one claim that everyone will know is a lie.

It is no wonder that all other religions are based on a claim of personal revelation.Only Judaism can claim national revelation since the Jewish people is the only nation in the history of mankind who ever experienced it.

Furthermore, it is interesting to note that the other major religions of the world both accept the Jewish revelation at Sinai, including the Five Books of Moses in their Bible, and hold the Sinai revelation as a key component of their religion.

When starting their own religions, why did they build upon the Jewish claim? Why didn't they just deny the revelation ever happened?

The answer is that they knew that if national revelation can never be fabricated; so too, its validity can therefore never be denied.

Now it is understandable how the Author of the Torah can confidently predict that there will never be another claim of national revelation in history.

Because only God knew it would happen only once, as it did -- at Sinai over 3,000 years ago.




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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:40 am

el kabong wrote:Yoo Hoo, lilly willy, I notice you retain alot of anger, jealousy, envy, etc...........you must learn to overcome your ego and manifest lovingkindness to all, even those you feel have wronged you. thumbs up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkbt8g2kSs&feature=fvst

http://www.shambhala.com/html/catalog/items/isbn/978-1-59030-332-0.cfm

Negative emotions have much to teach us about ourselves and our relationships with others and the world at large.

the consequences of malicious gossip, slander, and insults

cultivating humility as the middle path between pride and lack of self-
esteem

learning to rejoice in the happiness and success of others

knowing when it's better not to be nice

the proper way to correct or criticize others

living with ill-will and avoiding fights

forgiveness and reconciliation

turning your enemy into your best friend

cheers


The Torah recognizes one positive use of jealousy - be envious of the virtues in others. thumbs up

"Envy," according to Rabbi Bonder, is "a vampire who feeds not on his own vitality but on that of others." Like anger, gossip, and negative emotions, it "pollutes the heart." Instead of resenting the happiness of others, we can practice "farginen," a Yiddish word meaning making a pact with another person's pleasure or success.

"Envy is the most abstract form of rage." (4) There is a
sense to Bonder that the conflict here is between "I" and the "other." In this sense his thesis takes on the elements not only of
Buber but also of what we have seen regarding Eastern thought. He will speak later of the importance of dialogic
communication to break the chains forged by this powerful enslaver. He makes an interesting point in the Introduction in
speaking of the Ten Commandments. Why is it that the last commandment deals with envy or coveting? "The Rabbi of Radvil
explained: 'This is the last of the Commandments because he who fulfills it will certainly have complied with the rest.'" (5)

Bonder next talks about the power of envy by repeating a story from the Talmud. In it Moses had asked God why he had to
die, and God explained it was because he had already named Joshua to lead the people. Moses then tried to persuade both
Joshua and God that if he could live he would be content with not being in charge. Finally God agreed. But the first time
Joshua entered the Holy of Holies and Moses could not enter Moses prayed for death saying., "A hundred deaths are
preferable to the pain of envy." This gives us some idea of the pain and power of envy, but probably most of us do not need it
pointed out. The problem as Bonder says is that it often does not just come at the end of our life where it can so easily be
avoided. The author then establishes the purpose of the book as "not so much a study of the pathology of envy as it is a guide
to how to live with it." (11) That study will involve ancient as well as modern techniques.

Envy and all that relates to it, more than any other emotions, enslaves us to another person. Rabbi Zalmon Shachter-Shalomi,
(he lectures at the Naropa Institute in Boulder), is quoted as describing Envy as the "Poker-game syndrome." Winning in this
game depends on another's loss, and it is even better if one wins by bluffing. The goal therefore is not so much a personal
victory, but an opponents defeat. Each player tries to hide what he has from his opponent. Envy turns its slave into a heartless
predator.

The second chapter deals with envy and how it relates to other worlds. These other worlds are a Kabbalistic idea. These four
worlds will be discussed in a little more detail later, but suffice it to say that they represent a composite of who we are. They
represent the physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual dimensions. They are essentially overlays. Perhaps I can draw an
analogy based on my teaching photography in journalism. I had a four color separation that I would show to my students.
As the layers of red, yellow, and green were successively laid down, the picture would begin to look better and better, but it
wasn’t until the final layer of black was overlaid that the picture really looked sharp. It was also shown to them the
importance of aligning them just right or the picture comes out blurry. So too are the worlds. When things seem distorted we
are not in proper alignment to them. Bonder's explanation is as follows, "These worlds, coexistent and superimposed on one
another, serve to transport mundane events, starting with the most concrete, into more subtle dimensions of reality. In addition
to the four worlds effects on anger, there is also a cumulative effect. Just as small doses of something behave in one way while
cumulatively they can be altered in nature, so too hatred. Bonder gives many examples in the form of midrashic stories, but I
imagine we have had first hand experience with a small anger being left to fester and growing way out of proportion. One
interesting note is that the majority of stories have to do with problems of borrowing and lending. I suspect in some way or
other that is the cause of most anger and frustration today as well. Our whole economic structure is built around breaking the
wise axium, "neither a borrower nor a lender be." I have railed against Capitalism before and I will do it again. This is a
system that uses greed and avarice as its fuel and its inevitable by-product is envy, anger and frustration. This represents the
worlds out of balance.

There is a long section on the four worlds relationship to this topic. Condensed: hatred, voraciousness greed and slander exist
in the out of balance world of the physical -- Asiyah. Hatred turns into revenge, pride, jealousy, and talebearing in the
emotional world of Yetzirah. It continues to grow into feuding, envy, arragance and an evil tongue as it passes into the mental
Beriah. And finally karma, skepticism, and heresy are the result of hatred in the spiritual world of Atzilut. I think this is the main
point for Bonder in his trying to present a plan of action for defeating envy. We may not be able to control our physical natures
easily, but we can recognize the warning signs and stop the progress before it reaches our spirits. I want to present this in
another way to make certain that Bonder's point is made. The following is the progression of hatred and its fellows:
ASIYAH YETZIRAH BERIAH ATZILUT
HATRED REVENGE FEUDING KARMA
GREED PRIDE ARROGANCE SKEPTICISM
VORACITY JEALOUSY ENVY SKEPTICISM
SLANDER TALE-BEARING EVIL TONGUE HERESY

While the ultimate goal is to eliminate the problem before it starts at the physical level, the starting point is to try to halt its
progress. One of the most important places to start is with pride. There is much written about this, but Bonder makes several
interesting points. One is that humility is not the opposite of pride; lack of self-esteem is. "Humility is the point of equilibrium."
(36) One of the dangers of pride is that it can disguise itself as personal growth. According to Rabbi Mendel Libavitser,
"There is no worse pride than the pride of the pious." And according to Bonder, "Of all the types of pride, the pride of a
person who thinks he is growing as a human being is the worst." (37) The sad thing is that this goes to the heart of the self-
improvement movement. It becomes just another possession that if you spend enough money you can "possess" goodness
and maturity "They want to possess growth as one possesses a diploma, instead of living it and enduring the pangs that are an
intrinsic part of growth." Bonder uses a great analogy that pride represents a negative sign, so that no matter how many
points you gather towards enlightenment, pride instantly turns the number into a negative . The solution to pride is humility.

Proverbs 22:4 says, "The effect of humility is fear of the Lord, wealth, honor, and life." Bonder equates humility with the fear
of God. He uses many texts to prove his point, but let me try and apply this to those who may have a difficult time with the
notion of God. The point is that we must fear or respect something that is far removed from the physical plane. The effect of
that is to move us past the concern for how we appear to others. Ghandi is a great example of humility. Of course we can not
all instantly achieve his status, but if we could set men like him rather then many of the actors, or sports figures or politicians or
even self-help gurus that we tend to idolize, we would at least be moving in the right direction. So fear does not mean fear of
retribution, but rather fear that we will somehow disappoint whatever god we choose to put into that position, and unless that
god is truly worthy of emulating, we will get our desire and become just like him or her to our Karmic destruction. We must
choose whom we fear carefully and then we must be willing to live our lives in service to that choice as if he or she were right
there with us at every moment. I just read an example of this from the book Ghandi. Gopal Krishna Gokhale was a leader in
the Indian nationalist movement and very well respected in his own right. He said of Ghandi, "In Ghandi's presence, one is
ashamed to do anything unworthy….afraid of thinking anything unworthy." (44) This would be classified as the fear of Ghandi.

OK, I have to move on or I will never get this finished. In chapter 3, "Reasons For Hate," Bonder discusses some of the
emotional and physical situations we get into that causes hatred or rancor to grow. One of the main reasons is differences.
We tend to love and easily forgive those who we perceive as close to us, and close off those who are different. To overcome
this we must first learn to love ourself, "All love begins with loving oneself and then seeing in others…different people who
are part of us. The important thing to note here, is that we are not called to defy our nature by forcing ourselves to love those
who are not connected with us in some way. The trick is to fool our nature by expanding the realm of those we see as our
family. Again, as Bonder puts it, "Personal growth occurs not out of an attempt to love non-children/siblings or
disciples/friends, nor from the expectation of betraying our natures, but from a constant review of who we are." (50)

Bonder next discusses humiliation. We have seen that come up so many times before that I wont spend any time with it here
except to say that it is a vital part of our growth to put that behind us. I was watching television the other day and I saw a
commercial for America's Funniest Home Videos. That show, and going all the way back to Alan Funt's Candid Camera
shows off our love for seeing others humiliated. Even the so called "Reality Shows" that are so popular today are built at the
expense of someone else's pride. Another example of humiliation is gossip. This has often caused great grief, and again, I don't
think that needs defending, but as to how to combat it. Bonder quotes Reb Israel Meir who came up with a formula for when
criticism, (Often a dressed up word we use for slander or gossip), is constructive:
1.Evidence of dishonesty or faults must be obtained by the person who makes
the criticism and not by way of rumors he has heard.
2. The person who criticizes must be cautious and reflect deeply on the matter, to
to be sure that this is an instance of an incorrect attitude.
3. He must then privately censure the person who committed the error, without
creating a furor and in a nonthreatening manner, showing his expectation
that the behavior in question will be changed. If this does not occur, then
he may make the case public.

4. He should never make the offense appear greater than it is.
5. He should try to understand his own motives and be sure he is not criticizing
the other for personal reasons.
6. If there is any other way to avoid slandering the other, he should first
resort to that method.
7. As a result of his action, he should not bring upon the criticized individual
a punishment greater than that proffered by a court if the case were to
be judged.
In addition to all this, a person who publicly slanders someone should himself
be honest and not guilty of the same type of crimes or faults for which he is criticizing
the other. (65-66)

Well, there goes our legal system.

Slander and humiliation invades the other's privacy and space. This is also something we should consider. We need to be
careful of another's space, and if ours is invaded we need to question whether or not we actually left enough room for the
other to avoid interfering. Bonder put it nicely when he said, "When people step on our toes, many times they do it because
we have left no other space for them to stand, except on our own feet. " (69) So what is the answer here? We must strive to
allow other's their space and understand what our own space looks like. When we are criticized or think we are, we need to
be very careful to really understand where the arrow is coming from and where it was really intended to go.

Bonder starts off the next section entitled, "Quarreling," with a great Yiddish proverb, "If the heart is bitter, nothing will
sweeten the mouth." (75) Essentially what Bonder talks about in the first section is that we generally have the greatest quarrels
or feuds with those who are closest to us and most often the quarrel is over something that the quarreler hates about himself.
According to the Maggid of Mezeritz, "Do not be discouraged by strong opposition. Robbers attack those who carry jewels,
not carts carrying fertilizer." (76) What a great illustration. If we could think to ourselves every time someone picks a fight
with us that we should be flattered that this person sees us as worthy to try and rob from. We should be flattered. If we could
truly feel that way, what kind of response do you think that would engender? I would venture to guess it would be completely
different from our normal response. Another suggestion Bonder makes for ending what may seem impossible feuds is taken
from the story of Jacob's wrestling with the Angel. I will assume you know the story, so I wont repeat it, but there are a few
interesting insights that Bonder has. Jacob was about to meet Esau and this is a classic feud story, but before he met him,
Jacob dreamt he wrestled with an Angel who was actually God. We must recognize that when we quarrel with someone, we
are actually quarreling with God, but we often avoid that fight. We shouldn't. It is only by wrestling with God or our innermost
self that we can bring about change. That change may turn us inside out or create in us a whole new person with a different
name, (Jacob to Israel), but it beats the alternative which is being beaten down by our demons of rage. There is another
interesting point that the author makes. "Jacob had come to a river whose name is an anagram formed by the inversion of the
letters of his own name (J-c-b; J-b-c )." (83) We must often turn our way of looking at things around in order to see who
we really should be fighting with. It is interesting that God seems to encourage us then to fight with him rather than others. Even
the name Israel which was to became a great and glorious name means "he who fights with God." One of the fringe benefits of
fighting with God is that it could keep us from falling into the trap of believing that you are absolutely right and your opponent
(God) is absolutely wrong. Bonder tells a story that illustrates the point, "Judge not lest you be judged." But I prefer to think
about that in the light of another story that essentially says that when we stand before God, every word of judgement that we
spoke about others will be used to sentence ourselves. Scary thought. One of the keys here is to always, always doubt the
things we believe are certain when we are angry, and never argue by criticizing others or justifying ourselves. We must be very
careful whenever we feel we are right because, "Being right lies on a tenuous line between true worship and idol worship."
(89) There is a belief that when we truly learn to engage in dialogue that the Messiah will come. So how can we have
legitimate differences of opinion with another person? We must always respect our opponent and (this is a great key) "He
must reach the complex stage of knowing he is not right, but being certain he is not wrong." That takes some contemplation,
but it soon proves to be a powerful insight into how to argue dialogically. While this can help us when we are in the midst of
conflict, Bonder's next chapter will talk about avoidance.

One of the first ways to avoid conflict is learning to see each situation clearly. I have heard the story that Bonder tells here
before, but I love it and I think it's worth repeating:
The king visited the royal prison and spoke with the prisoners. Each who
Approached vowed his innocence, except for one prisoner, who confessed
to being a thief. "Get this scoundrel out of here!" exclaimed the king. "He
will corrupt the innocent!" (95)

It is no accident that one of the physical characteristics of anger is squinting the eyes. If we could see clearly we would most
likely not be angry. Just as in the last paper, we talked about hearing what was not said, so too must we be able to see what
may not be obviously visible. This is the stuff of prophets and holy men which is available to each and everyone of us. Bonder
puts it succinctly when he says, "Prophecy comes from a wise person's ability to keep his eyes open when everyone else's are
closed." (98) Most of us when confronted with a child who does outrageous things can react with patience and
understanding. This is a child after all. I remember one time I was disciplining my daughter and she flew into a rage and started
yelling and screaming and telling me that she hated me. I didn't react back with anger, I knew she didn't mean those things. I
let her spend her anger, then we talked, and then we hugged, and it was over. Had I been confronted with that kind of anger
from an adult, I doubt I would have been as forgiving. But that's the problem. Bonder talks about the Rabbinic concept of
tinok she-nishbah which is a captive child that does not know of his origin. This child must be treated with extreme patience
and forgiveness. When we are greeted with anger we must learn to develop an understanding that the person before us is a
tinok she-nishbah. I have been doing some reading about dealing with the inner child and the bottom line seems to be that
Bonder's assessment here and the concepts he quotes have a very solid basis psychologically. Each one of us has that inner-
child, and I would venture to say that for a number of us, diagnosed or not, that child has never really been nurtured. Is it any
wonder that conflicts exist. At least with my girls, they have the assurance, proven time and again, that I love them
unconditionally and the bonus is that they have returned that unconditional love to me. There are many who have never had
that assurance. The goal of most religions is to provide that assurance on a spiritual level, but we must truly accept it. So what
Bonder is saying here as a way to avoid conflict is that we must identify the child in others (as well as ourselves) and treat them
as a LOVING parent. What this does is allow an "other" the space to grow. Bonder gives us a great Yiddish verb farginen
which means "to open space, to share pleasure; it is the exact opposite of the verb to envy." (104) It is much easier to grieve
with someone then to rejoice with them. To farginen someone takes discipline and practice. But I offer again the analogy of
seeing in the other not only a child, but your child. I feel no envy when my girls succeed, only pride. It is easy to farginen your
own child or disciple so the trick is to expand your definition of who is your family. Christianity teaches in the words of Jesus
and I am paraphrasing since I no longer have a Christian Bible, Who is my mother…I tell you that anyone who does the will of
God is my mother and father and sister and brother."

Know the example I gave earlier of my daughter's anger came out of discipline or rebuke that I made. Bonder in the next
section gives us another way to avoid conflict by understanding how to offer correction that avoids rancor or conflict. The
heart of his proposal comes from Leviticus 19:17 that juxtaposes two concepts in one verse. "Do not hate your brother in your
heart…certainly you shall rebuke your neighbor and not suffer sin upon him." The implication here is twofold; one, not
criticizing another is equal to hatred of the other and two, when we criticize, it cannot be with any kind of hatred or dislike for
the other. If either you or the other is unprepared for the criticism, you must not give it. I must apologize now for the length of
this journal. Bonder uses so many wonderful stories in his book, and I have tried not to repeat most of them, but I find some
that are just too good not to repeat. So I apologize for making you read so much. Well here goes. This is from another of the
many great Rabbis who lived around the 18th century, Rabbi Meir:
Once, a lion decided not to seek food until his breath was sweeter. He found a
Mule and said to him, "Put your head near my mouth and tell me if my breath
Is sweet." The mule did so and responded negatively.
"How dare he insult me?" exclaimed the king of beasts and immediately
devoured the mule.
Some days later, the lion met up with a wolf and put the same question to him.
The wolf answered in the affirmative. "How dare you lie to me?" roared the lion, and devoured him at once.
Some time later, he questioned a fox, an animal that does not let himself get mixed up in complicated situations. "Excuse me,"
said the fox. "I have a cold and have lost my sense of smell."
"Get yourselves a cold as well," said Rabbi Meir to his disciples, "and you will be saved from the lion." (111)
http://www.joyfulltimes.com/Kabbalah/KabbalahEnvy_Zelig.html

YHWH has already provided Humankind a sign of the Covenant for all times.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1bFr2SWP1I

cheers

mugglez

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:41 am

el kabong wrote:
true lilly wrote:
But what can I say? What can I do? But 'stick to my guns',
of patience in faith, and keep praying for God's instruction,
in God's good time....and His Grace; that my errors and His
corrections don't cause me to 'fall at the last', but rather,
that they steel me, to better endure and 'run the good race'.


Bless God. Bless The King. Bless The Faithful Servants.
Bless The Lost Who Seek His Way Home.
...now go PREACH all your RELIGION of MYTHS and outright LIES,
at CORI & TINTIN, 'they' LUUVVVV 'that' SHIT...

er, lilly willy, it appears to be YOU 'preaching' 'lies & myths'. thumbs up

Where did Moses and the Hebrews receive YHWHs Torah/Instruction?

At Mt. Sinai in the Sinai Desert.

It was received publicly so that no-one could claim otherwise.

This was approximately 3,500 years ago.
thumbs up

Where did the Hebrews/Israelites go 40 years later?

To Canaan, the Land of Milk and Honey.
thumbs up


Where is Mt. Zion geographically?

In Jerusalem.
thumbs up


Is your ego so enormous you call every Rabbi/Teacher of YHWHS Torah/Instruction stupid liars and you 'know' better?

Is your ego so enormous you call all Biblical Archeologists/Linguists Stupid liars and you 'know' better?

If so, do a reality check. thumbs up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpBs8xbG4Rg

[b]Mount Zion


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Zion

Mount Zion (Hebrew: הר צִיּוֹן‎‎, Har Tsion; Arabic: جبل صهيون‎, Jabel Sahyoun) is an elevation west of the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem. Today the term refers to a hill outside the Old City, though its biblical identity is unclear.

The Hebrew root of the word "Zion" means "landmark", and is often translated as "fortress", as according to the Book of Samuel it was the location of the Jebusite fortress conquered by King David.

Since the biblical era, the term "Zion" has been a synecdoche referring to the entire city of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel (see, for example, Psalms 69:35). Following this usage, the term is sometimes used to refer to a promised land in general.................

thumbs up













cheers



















Tel Aviv
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv


Tel Aviv was built on sand dunes in an area usuitable for farming, and maritime commerce was centered in Haifa and Ashdod. Instead, the city developed as a center of business and scientific research.[9] Economic activities account for 17 percent of GDP.[50]


Yoo Towers, a luxury apartment complexThe city has been called a "flourishing technological center" by Newsweek and a "miniature Los Angeles" by The Economist.[9][97] In 1998, the city was described by Newsweek as one of the top 10 most technologically influential cities in the world. Since then, high-tech industry in the Tel Aviv area has continued to develop.[97] The Tel Aviv metropolitan area (including satellite cities such as Herzliya and Petah Tikva) is Israel's center of high-tech, sometimes referred to as Silicon Wadi.[97][98]

Tel Aviv is home to the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange (TASE), Israel's only stock exchange, which has reached record heights since the 1990s.[99] The Tel Aviv Stock exchange has also gained attention for its resilience and ability to recover from war and disasters. For example, the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange was higher on the last day of both the 2006 Lebanon war and the 2009 Operation in Gaza then on the first day of fighting [100] Many international venture-capital firms, scientific research institutes and high-tech companies are headquartered in the city. Industries in Tel Aviv include chemical processing, textile plants and food manufacturers.[9] The city's nightlife, cultural attractions and architecture attract tourists whose spending benefits the local economy.[101]

In 2008, the Globalization and World Cities Study Group and Network (GaWC) at Loughborough University reissued an inventory of world cities based on their level of advanced producer services. Tel Aviv was ranked as a beta+ world city.[10]

According to Forbes, nine of its fifteen Israeli-born billionaires live in Israel; four live in Tel Aviv and its suburbs.[102][103] The cost of living in Israel is high, with Tel Aviv being its most expensive city to live in. According to Mercer, a human resources consulting firm based in New York, as of 2010 Tel Aviv is the most expensive city in the Middle East and the 19th most expensive in the world.[98]

Tel Aviv ranked world's 3rd hottest city for 2011
http://www.jpost.com/Travel/TravelNews/Article.aspx?id=193541

Lonely Planet's Top Cities list describes Israel's most international city as hedonistic, tolerant, cultured, and a truly diverse 21st-century hub.

After scouring the globe for next year’s hottest cities, the editors at travel guide company Lonely Planet released their Top 10 Cities for 2011 on Sunday, listing what it called a “modern Sin City” – Tel Aviv – at No. 3.

Coming in behind New York City and Tangier, Tel Aviv is described as being unified by the religion of hedonism, yet tolerant, cultured and a truly diverse 21st-century hub.

Touching on the city’s wellknown night life, Lonely Planet observes, “There are more bars than synagogues, God is a DJ and everyone’s body is a temple.”

Calling Tel Aviv the most international city in Israel, Lonely Planet points out that the city is home to a large gay community, calling it “a kind of San Francisco in the Middle East.”

Key word: Tolerant thumbs up cheers

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:42 am

el kabong wrote:Jerusalem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem

Jerusalem (Hebrew: יְרוּשָׁלַיִם‎‎ (audio) (help·info), Yerushaláyim, ISO 259-3 Yrušalaym, "Abode of Peace"; Arabic: القُدس (audio) (help·info), al-Quds [al-Sharif], "The Holy Sanctuary")[ii] is the capital of Israel, though not internationally recognized as such.[iii] If the area and population of East Jerusalem is included, it is Israel's largest city[1] in both population and area,[2] with a population of 763,800 residents over an area of 125.1 km2 (48.3 sq mi).[3][4][iv] Located in the Judean Mountains, between the Mediterranean Sea and the northern edge of the Dead Sea, modern Jerusalem has grown far beyond the boundaries of the Old City.

Jerusalem is a holy city to the three major Abrahamic religions—Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In Judaism, Jerusalem has been the holiest city since, according to the Biblical Old Testament, King David of Israel first established it as the capital of the united Kingdom of Israel in c. 1000 BCE, and his son Solomon commissioned the building of the First Temple in the city.[5] In Christianity, Jerusalem has been a holy city since, according to the New Testament, Jesus was crucified in c. 30 CE and 300 years later Saint Helena found the True Cross in the city. In Sunni Islam, Jerusalem is the third-holiest city.[6][7] It became the first Qibla, the focal point for Muslim prayer (Salah) in 610 CE,[8] and, according to Islamic tradition, Muhammad made his Night Journey there ten years later.[9][10] As a result, and despite having an area of only 0.9 square kilometres (0.35 sq mi),[11] the Old City is home to sites of key religious importance, among them the Temple Mount, the Western Wall, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque.

During its long history, Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.[12] The oldest part of the city was settled in the 4th millennium BCE, making Jerusalem one of the oldest cities in the world.[13] The old walled city, a World Heritage site, has been traditionally divided into four quarters, although the names used today—the Armenian, Christian, Jewish, and Muslim Quarters—were introduced in the early 19th century.[14] The Old City was nominated for inclusion on the List of World Heritage Sites in Danger by Jordan in 1982.[15]

Today, the status of Jerusalem remains one of the core issues in the Israeli–Palestinian conflict. During the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, West Jerusalem was among the areas captured and later annexed by Israel, while East Jerusalem was held by Jordan. Israel captured East Jerusalem during the 1967 Six-Day War and subsequently annexed it. Currently, Israel's Basic Law refers to Jerusalem as the country's "undivided capital". The international community has rejected the annexation as illegal and treats East Jerusalem as Palestinian territory held by Israel under military occupation.[16][17][18][19] The international community does not recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, and the city hosts no foreign embassies.







The Biblical Chronologist

http://www.biblicalchronologist.org/answers/sinai_location.php

1. Distance from Egypt
The true Mt. Sinai must be located outside of Egypt, but not a great distance away. The Bible records that the Israelites arrived at Sinai 45 days after leaving Egypt. Accounting for days not spent traveling (for example, time spent in battle with the Amalekites at Rephidim), and estimating a pace of 30 miles per day, Mt. Sinai must be no more than 630 miles from Egypt.

Mt. Yeroham is located approximately 150 miles from Egypt. Mt. Yeroham passes this test.


http://www.biblicalchronologist.org/answers/exodus_egypt.php

Conclusion
Evidence for the Exodus from Egypt is plentiful[/b cheers thumbs up


popcorn

[b]One rabbi asserts that the Exodus never happened. What role does archaeology play in verifying Biblical events?


http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48938472.html


A storm of debate has erupted in the Jewish world, following the well-publicized assertion by Rabbi David Wolpe of Los Angeles that "the way the Bible describes the Exodus is not the way it happened, if it happened at all."

Wolpe made his declaration before 2,000 worshippers at the Conservative Sinai Temple, and the speech was reported on the front page of the Los Angeles Times. The article entitled, "Doubting the Story of Exodus," asserts that archaeology disproves the validity of the Biblical account.

While people don't usually get worked up about archaeology, the debate about archaeology and the Bible is often passionate and vitriolic.

Biblical Archaeology is often divided into two camps: The "minimalists" tend to downplay the historical accuracy of the Bible, while the "maximalists," who are in the majority and are by and large not religious, tend to suggest that archaeological evidence supports the basic historicity of the Bible text.

As a science, we must understand what archaeology is and what it isn't.

Archaeology consists of two components: the excavation of ancient artifacts, and the interpretation of those artifacts. While the excavation component is more of a mechanical skill, the interpretive component is very subjective. Presented with the same artifact, two world-class archaeologists will often come to different conclusions -- particularly when ego, politics and religious beliefs enter the equation.

In the subjective field of Biblical Archaeology, anyone making a definitive statement like "archaeology has proven..." has probably chosen to take sides and is not presenting the whole picture. When Los Angeles Times reporter Teresa Watanabe writes that "the rabbi was merely telling his flock what scholars have known for more than a decade" (emphasis added), she is revealing her anti-Biblical bias..................


What support is there for the claim that God spoke to all the Jewish people at the foot of Mount Sinai?

http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/48943936.html

Who did God give the Torah to at Mount Sinai? Most people reply, "God gave the Torah to Moses."

And what were the Jewish people doing while Moses was receiving the Torah? "Worshipping the Golden Calf."

Correct answers –- but NOT according to the Bible.

The above answers come from Cecil B. DeMille's classic film, "The Ten Commandments." Amazing the impact one movie can have on the Jewish education of generations of Jews. It's a great film, but DeMille should have read the original.

The version found in the Torah is quite different. The Torah's claim is that the entire people heard God speak at Mount Sinai, experiencing national revelation. God did not just appear to Moses in a private rendezvous; He appeared to everyone, some 3 million people. This claim is mentioned many times in the Torah.

[Moses told the Israelites]: 'Only beware for yourself and greatly beware for your soul, lest you forget the things that your eyes have beheld. Do not remove this memory from your heart all the days of your life. Teach your children and your children's children about the day that you stood before the Lord your God at Horev [Mount Sinai]...

God spoke to you from the midst of the fire, you were hearing the sound of words, but you were not seeing a form, only a sound. He told you of His covenant, instructing you to keep the Ten Commandments, and He inscribed them on two stone tablets.' (Deut.4:9-13)

'You have been shown in order to know that God, He is the Supreme Being. There is none besides Him. From heaven he let you hear His voice in order to teach you, and on earth He showed you His great fire, and you heard His words amid the fire.' (Deut. 4:32-36)

Moses called all of Israel and said to them: 'Hear, O Israel, the decrees and the ordinances that I speak in your ears today -- learn them, and be careful to perform them. The Lord your God sealed a covenant with us at Horev [Mount Sinai]. Not with our forefathers did God seal this covenant, but with us -- we who are here, all of us alive today. Face to face did God speak with you on the mountain from amid the fire.' (Deut. 5:1-4)

The Torah claims that the entire Jewish nation heard God speak at Sinai, an assertion that has been accepted as part of their nation's history for over 3,000 years.

DeMille's mistake is such a big deal because the Jewish claim of national revelation, as opposed to individual revelation, is the central defining event that makes Judaism different than every other religion in the world.....................
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SINAI: THE ONLY CLAIM OF NATIONAL REVELATION thumbs up

popcorn

Throughout history, tens of thousands of religions have been started by individuals, attempting to convince people that God spoke to him or her. All religions that base themselves on some type of revelation share essentially the same beginning: a holy person goes into solitude, comes back to his people, and announces that he has experienced a personal revelation where God appointed him to be His prophet.

Would you believe someone who claims God appointed him or her as God's new prophet?Would you believe someone who claims to have received a personal communication from God appointing him or her as God's new prophet?

Maybe He did. Then again, maybe He didn't. One can never know. The claim is inherently unverifiable.

Personal revelation is an extremely weak basis for a religion since one can never know if it is indeed true. Even if the individual claiming personal revelation performs miracles, there is still no verification that he is a genuine prophet. Miracles do not prove anything. All they show -- assuming they are genuine -- is that he has certain powers. It has nothing to do with his claim of prophecy.

Maimonides writes:

Israel did not believe in Moses, our teacher, on account of the miracles he performed. For when one's faith is based on miracles, doubt remains in the mind that these miracles may have been done through the occult and witchcraft...

What then were the grounds of believing him? The revelation on Sinai which we saw with our own eyes, and heard with our own ears, not having to depend on the testimony of others... (Mishna Torah - Foundations of Torah 8:1)


A BOLD PREDICTION


There are 15,000 known religions in all of recorded history. Given this inherent weakness, why do all of them base their claim on personal revelation? If someone wanted their religion to be accepted, why wouldn't they present the strongest, most believable claim possible -- i.e. national revelation! It's far more credible. No one has to take a leap of faith and blindly trust just one person's word. It is qualitatively better to claim that God came to everyone, telling the entire group that so-and-so is His prophet.

Why would God establish His entire relationship with a nation through one man, without any possibility of verification, and still expect this nation to obediently follow an entire system of instructions, based only on blind faith?

Yet, Judaism is the only religion in the annals of history that makes the best of all claims -- that everyone heard God speak. No other religion claims the experience of national revelation. Why?

Furthermore, the author of the Torah predicts that there will never be another claim of national revelation throughout history!

'You might inquire about times long past, from the day that God created man on earth, and from one end of heaven to the other: Has there ever been anything like this great thing or has anything like it been heard? Has a people ever heard the voice of God speaking from the midst of the fires as you have heard and survived?' (Deut. 4:32-33)

Let's consider the option that God did not write the Torah, and its author successfully convinced a group of people to accept a false claim of national revelation. In this book, the author writes a prediction that over the course of history no one will ever make a similar claim. That means if such a claim is ever made at some future time, the prediction will end up being false and his religion is finished.

How could the author include in the book he is passing off as a hoax the prediction that no other person will ever attempt to perpetuate the same hoax when he just made that exact claim? If he could do it, he can be certain that others will too, especially since it is the best possible claim to make. If you are making up a religion, you do not write something you know you cannot predict and whose outcome you would think is guaranteed to be exactly the opposite.

However, aside from the Jewish claim of Mount Sinai, it is a fact that no other nation has ever claimed such a similar national revelation.

Let's summarize two primary questions:

1. Out of 15,000 known religions in recorded history, why is Judaism the only one that claims national revelation, the best of all claims? Why do all other religions base themselves on the inherently weak assertion of personal revelation?

2. If Judaism's claim is indeed an example of a successful hoax that falsely asserts national revelation, the author just got away with passing off the best possible claim, and others will certainly follow suit. Why then would he predict that no one else will ever make a similar claim, a prediction he knows he cannot foresee, and whose outcome is likely to be the exact opposite?

There is one simple answer to both questions. A national revelation -- as opposed to personal revelation -- is the one lie you cannot get away with. It is one event you cannot fabricate. The only way to make this claim is if it actually happened.

If the claim is true, the people will believe it because they are agreeing to something they already know. Either they personally witnessed it, or their ancestors collectively passed down the account as part of their nation's accepted history.

If the claim is false, it's like trying to convince you that God spoke to you or your parents and somehow you never heard of it. No one would ever accept such a claim.

Therefore no other religion has ever made the best of all claims, because it is the one claim that can only be made if it is true. One cannot pass national revelation off as a hoax.

When inventing a religion, the originator must resort to personal revelation, despite its inherent weakness, since it is a claim that is unverifiable. The originator can hope to find adherents willing to take a leap of faith and accept his or her religion. After all, no one can ever know it is a lie. [Of course, no one can know if it's true either.] This simply cannot work with national revelation since it's the one claim that everyone will know is a lie.

It is no wonder that all other religions are based on a claim of personal revelation.Only Judaism can claim national revelation since the Jewish people is the only nation in the history of mankind who ever experienced it.

Furthermore, it is interesting to note that the other major religions of the world both accept the Jewish revelation at Sinai, including the Five Books of Moses in their Bible, and hold the Sinai revelation as a key component of their religion.

When starting their own religions, why did they build upon the Jewish claim? Why didn't they just deny the revelation ever happened?

The answer is that they knew that if national revelation can never be fabricated; so too, its validity can therefore never be denied.

Now it is understandable how the Author of the Torah can confidently predict that there will never be another claim of national revelation in history.

Because only God knew it would happen only once, as it did -- at Sinai over 3,000 years ago.




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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:46 am

el kabong wrote:
le sabrage wrote:no lie lilly, you are a neo NAZI, anti semite.....and a pathological liar...... thumbs up

true lilly wrote: Ah "SNOOP", yet another 'name' that demands belief in
long ago debunked myths (while denying all meaningful
discoveries of modern science), to sell more fearful following
of Death Worshiping Religions, kept 'alive' by belief in the
'out of Egypt time line', that "They" LIE is 'Biblical'.

Sorry, but you can't debate what was told us about
THE BEGINNING of Life Forming on One Super Continent,
when you insist on SKIPPING EVERYTHING DESCRIBED
BEFORE that One Super Continent Divided and Formed
new lands (like Turkey and it's Young Mountains), leaving
an INSANELY SHORT time line, that you then try to shove
ALL ANCIENT EARTH & HUMAN HISTORY into, just to try
to 'make a lie out of God's Word', that warned us about
the secret agenda of Liars like "SNOOP", and Promised to
provide Revealing Proofs of The Truth of God's Word, such
as many I have shared over the years.
rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin




What are you blind? You didn't see the first two Posts? You don't believe Genesis 10, the Table of Nations, you don't know that life began beneath the sea before it appeared on land? You don't know/understand that human life is quantitatively and qualitateively different then all other life on this Planet and the Universe?





lilly, you falsely claim that no one responds/refutes your 'claims' that australia is the Biblical 'promised Land'. That you falsely 'claim' that australia is the Biblical Zion.

That you 'claim' that the land of egypt is not mentioned in the Bible, that some of the events of Abraham, Joseph, and the Tribes of the Hebrews/Israelites did not take place in Egypt.

You also Falsely claim that Yahshua/Jesus 'did away' with the Torah/Instruction of YHWH-Yahweh.

You also Falsely claim that 'spiritual Israel' replaces the Jews and the geographical Israel.


ALL of your 'claims' are FALSE and I, Senor El Kabong, Monsieur Le Sabrage and Barnacle Bill have refuted ALL your 'claims', proving them to be FALSE and wrong with credentialed Scholarship and credentialed Academic and Theological Sources.

Here is your challenge. Will you run away as always, obfusicate the clear meanings or will you 'stand toe to toe' and support your FALSE 'claims' with credentialed sources that can be verified.

Truth IS NOT ambiguous and subject to personal opinion. TRUTH is FACT/Reality. Below is a Timeline of the Earths Evolution.........from the beginning. Notice the formation and dissolution of the various Super-continents. Also notice the great oxidization of the earths atmosphere event.......all supported by the fossil record. Do you agree or disagree?


The Kloo Store is open!!!!! The words you are talking about ORIGINALLY were scribed in Hebrew, at Sinai. Circa approximately 1,500 BCE............examine this authentic scientific Timeline............Notice, if you will when the Landmasses SEPARATED..........Notice if you will the Oxidization of the Atmosphere.......before you babble anymore nonsense acquire the Genesis Enigma by Andrew Parker......all you are doing is Antisemitic/judeophobic propaganda replacement bullshit...... ..


http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/timeline.html



Counting Backwards from Now

60 years ago - Invention of the computer.

130 years ago - Invention of the telephone.

180 years ago - Fossil fuel revolution: coal, trains.

540 years ago - Invention of the printing press.

5,500 years ago - Invention of the wheel, writing.

7,600 years ago - Sahara desert starts forming in northern Africa.

8,800 years ago - The first cities.

10,300 years ago - End of the most recent glacial period: the Wisconsin glaciation.

12,700 - 11,500 years ago - the Younger Dryas.

18,000 years ago - Cultivation of plants, herding of animals. Homo sapiens arrives in the Americas.

21,000 years ago - Last glacial maximum: ice sheets down to the Great Lakes, the mouth of the Rhine, and covering the British Isles.

32,000 years ago - Oldest known cave paintings.

35,000 years ago - Invention of the calendar, extinction of Homo neanderthalensis. Homo sapiens arrives in Europe.

50,000 years ago - Homo sapiens arrives in central Asia.

100,000 years ago - Homo sapiens arrives in the Middle East.

110,000 years ago - Beginning of the most recent glacial period: the Wisconsin glaciation.

130,000 years ago - Beginning of the Eemian interglacial.

200,000 years ago - Beginning of the 2nd most recent glacial period: the Wolstonian glaciation.

250,000 years ago - First Homo sapiens.

350,000 years ago - First Homo neanderthalensis.

380,000 years ago - Beginning of the Hoxnian interglacial.

450,000 years ago - Beginning of the 3rd most recent glacial period: the Kansan glaciation, during which ice sheets reached their maximum extent in the Pleistocene, down to Kansas and Slovakia.

620,000 years ago - Beginning of the Cromerian interglacial.

1.4 million years ago - First firemaking by humans.

1.9 million years ago - First Homo erectus.

2.5 million years ago - First Homo habilis. Beginning of a period of repeated glaciation (loosely speaking, "ice ages").

3 million years - Cooling trend causes year-round ice to form at the North Pole.

3.9 million years ago - First known Australopithecus afarensis.

5 million years ago - Humans split off from other apes (gorillas and chimpanzees).

21 million years ago - Apes split off from other monkeys.

24 million years ago - Cooling trend causes the formation of grasslands; Antarctica becomes covered with ice.

34 million years ago - Gondwanaland finishes breaking up, with Australia and South America separating from Antarctica.

50 million years ago - India begins to collide with Asia, eventually forming the Himalayas.

67 million years ago - Asteroid hit Mexico, causing the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction. End of dinosaurs. 50% of all species died out! Intensification of world cooling trend.

114 million years ago - First modern mammals. World begins to cool.

150 million years ago - First birds.

200 million years ago - Pangaea began to split into separate continents: Gondwana to the south and Laurasia to the north, separated by the Tethys Sea.

205 million years ago - The Triassic-Jurassic extinction. End of large amphibians and many reptiles.

235 million years ago - First dinosaurs, flowers.

250 million years ago - The Permian-Triassic extinction. 90% of all species died out! Formation of the supercontinent Pangaea, with surrounding ocean Panthalassa.

313 million years ago - First reptiles.

365 million years ago - The Late Devonian extinction. 70% of marine species died out! First amphibians, trees.

395 million years ago - First insects on land.

415 million years ago - The Old Red Sandstone Continent, also known as Laurussia, is formed by the collision of Baltica and Laurentia at the beginning of the Devonian.

440 million years ago - The Ordovician-Silurian extinction. Most marine species died out.

670 million years ago - First animals.

630-850 million years ago - The Cryogenian Period, also known as Snowball Earth - the worst ice age in the Earth's history.

800 million years ago - The supercontinent Rodinia begins to break up.

1 billion years ago - Formation of the supercontinent Rodinia


1.3 billion years ago - First plants.

1.6 billion years ago - First blue-green algae.

2.4 billion years ago - The Great Oxidation Event: the Earth's atmosphere gets oxygen.

3 billion years ago - Formation of the first known continent, Ur.
3.8 - 4 billion years ago - The Late Heavy Bombardment: a period during which the Earth, Moon, Venus and Mars were subjected to many asteroid impacts, after a relatively calm period of several million years.

4 billion years ago - First life on Earth. wave


4.45 billion years ago - Formation of Earth complete; storm of asteroid impacts.

4.5 billion years ago - Formation of the Moon: according to the Giant Impact Hypothesis, this happened when Theia collided with proto-Earth.

4.55 billion years ago - Formation of the Solar System.

13.3 billion years ago - Reionization: the first stars heat and ionize hydrogen gas.

13.3 - 13.7 billion years ago - The Dark Ages, after the formation of hydrogen and before the first stars.

13.7 billion years ago - The Big Bang: beginning of the universe as we know it!


The Genesis enigma: How DID the Bible describe the evolution of life 3,000 years before Darwin?

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200486/The-Genesis-enigma-How-DID-Bible-evolution-life-3-000-years-Darwin.html#ixzz1eMgMePRe

The revalation came to Professor Andrew Parker during a visit to Rome. He was in the Sistine Chapel, gazing up at Michelangelo's awesome ceiling paintings, when a realisation struck him with dizzying force.
'A Biblical enigma exists that is on the one hand so cryptic it has remained camouflaged for millennia, and on the other so obvious one cannot miss it.'
The enigma is that the order of Creation as described in the Book of Genesis, and so powerfully depicted in the Sistine Chapel by the greatest artist of the Renaissance, has been precisely, eerily confirmed by modern evolutionary science.

Yet how on earth could this be possible? And why had nobody noticed it before?
Such was the starting point of Parker's jaw-dropping new book, The Genesis Enigma: an astounding work which seeks to prove that the ancient Hebrew writers of the Book of Genesis knew all about evolution - 3,000 years before Darwin.
It takes a journey back through aeons of geological time, and also into the minds and imaginations of the ancient Israelites.
Andrew Parker is a leading scientist in his field: a research fellow at Oxford University, research leader at the Natural History Museum, and as if that weren't enough, a professor at Shanghai's Jiao Tong university.
As a scientist he never paid much heed to the Book of Genesis, assuming, like most of his colleagues, that such primitive mythology - which is believed to have been compiled from several sources between 950 and 500 BC - has long since been 'disproved' by hard scientific fact.
But after his Sistine Chapel moment, he went back to look at Genesis in more detail. And what he read astonished him. It was even, he says, 'slightly scary'.
Somehow - God alone knew how - the writer or writers of that ancient text had described how the evolution of life on earth took place in precise detail and perfect order.
Our ancestors possessed a truly timeless wisdom It is always disturbing and haunting to encounter an ancient wisdom that seems to anticipate or even exceed our own.
More fanciful writers immediately start to theorise wildly: that those who built the pyramids, or Stonehenge, must have been guided by super-intelligent aliens, that sort of thing.
Andrew Parker, a scientist and proud of it, has no time for such twaddle. But he does gradually come to understand, in the course of his investigations, that our ancestors of thousands of years ago, though they may not have had iPods and plasma-screen televisions, nevertheless possessed a wisdom that was, quite literally, timeless: as true now as it was then.
In the Book of Genesis, God first and most famously creates heaven and earth, but 'without form', and commands: 'Let there be light.' A perfect description of the Big Bang, that founding moment of our universe some 13 billion years ago, an unimaginable explosion of pure energy and matter 'without form' out of nothing - the primordial Biblical 'void'.
He then creates the dry land out of the waters, but it is the water that comes first. As Parker points out, scientists today understand very similarly that water is indeed crucial for life.

When 'astrobiologists' look into space for signs of life on other planets, the first thing they look for is the possible presence of water.
On the third day, we are told: 'God said, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so."'
Now factually speaking, grass didn't evolve until much later. In the Triassic and Jurassic epochs, the dinosaurs knew only plants such as giant conifers and tree ferns. But since grass did not in fact evolve until much later, a sternly literal-minded scientist would declare the Bible wrong, and consign it to the nearest wheelie bin.
But wait a minute, says Parker. If you take 'grass, herb and tree' to mean photosynthesising life in general, then this is, once again, spot on.

The very life forms on earth were single-celled bacteria, but the first truly viable bacteria were the 'cyanobacteria' - those that had learned to photosynthesise.
As a result, they began to expire oxygen, creating an atmosphere that could go on to support more and more life. They were the key to life on earth.
Naturally, says Parker, 'the ancient Israelites would have been oblivious to any single-celled life form, let alone cyanobacteria', but 'grass' as a loose description of life forms that photosynthesise?

On the fourth day, Genesis famously becomes confusing. On the first day, remember, God has already created light, and made Day and Night. But it isn't until day four that he makes the lights in heaven, the greater light to rule the day and the lesser the night.
Hang on - so he made 'Day' three days before he made the Sun? Houston, I think we have a problem.

Yet the writers of Genesis were just as well aware as us, surely, that the sunrise causes the day. You don't need a degree in astronomy to work that one out. What on earth did they mean?
Here, The Genesis Enigma comes up with a stunningly ingenious answer. For Parker argues that day four refers to the evolution of vision.
Until the first creatures on earth evolved eyes, in a sense, the sun and moon didn't exist. There was no creature on earth to see them, nor the light they cast.

When Genesis says: 'Let there be lights... To divide the day from the night,' it is talking about eyes.
'The very first eye on earth effectively turned on the lights for animal behaviour,' writes Professor Parker, 'and consequently for further rapid evolution.'
Almost overnight, life suddenly grew vastly more complex. Predators were able to hunt far more efficiently, and so prey had to evolve fast too - or get eaten.

The moment that there were 'lights', or eyes, then life exploded into all its infinite variety.
And yet again, that's what Genesis says happened, and in the correct environment too. In the sea.
For on the very next day of Creation, the fifth day: 'God said, "Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life."'

That is exactly what happened. Life that had hitherto been lived in the dark, by simple, slow-moving, worm-like creatures, erupted into dazzling diversity. We know all about it from the world famous Burgess Shale fossils.
They were discovered in the summer of 1909 by one Charles Doolittle Walcott, on holiday with his family in the Canadian Rockies. Walcott began to chip away at the shale with his geological hammer, and quite by chance stumbled upon one of the greatest finds in all science.
For the shale records what happened on our planet around 508 million years ago, long before the first dinosaurs: the 'Cambrian expolosion,' which most scientists now think was indeed the direct result of the evolution of vision.
Life on earth exploded in all its infinite variety The life-forms discovered look like nothing else: fabulous, phantasmagoric, alien beings. One had five eyes, and a long wavy snout with jaws on the end. Another looked like an octopus with its head stuck in a beaker, and another can only be described as 'a swimming pea with a pair of beady eyes, bull's horns, a pair of "hands" and a fish's tail.'
Others resemble balls of spines, vase-shaped pin-cushions, or badminton shuttlecocks with chameleon-like tongues. Anyone who doubts the power of evolution by natural selection only has to look at the Burgess Shale fossils.
How does Genesis describe the teeming aquatic life of the Cambrian explosion? 'And God said, "Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life." ' Immediately following the creation of vision.
How did the writer/writers know that life suddenly diversified into this rich and staggering variety, under the oceans, not on land? Why would a very much land-based people, pastoralists and shepherds, even think like this?
After the Cambrian come the Ordovician, Silurian and Devonian periods - or the appearance of 'great whales', as Genesis succinctly puts it.
How better to describe those epochs which gave us such monsters of the deep as Dunkleosteus, a carnivorous armoured fish whose appearance, says Parker, was 'simply terrifying'. Some 35ft long, 'the size of a small coach', with massive, bone-crunching jaws, even its eyes were armoured.
And after the sea monsters come the birds, the animals, cattle, and finally, homo sapiens. All present and correct, and all still in the right order. Once again, 'In describing how the planet and life around us came to be, the writer of the Genesis narrative got it disturbingly right'.
So what should we make of the extraordinary findings of The Genesis Enigma?
Professor Parker is clear on this subject. 'It would be a great shame if my findings were either misused in an attempt to suggest that scientists themselves are unsure about science, or pounded out of all recognition into support of the seven-day creation premise.'
There is no doubt that literal-minded Creationists do a disservice to the triumphant achievements of modern science, and to the beauty and poetry of the Bible. Evolution is taking place around us all the time. It's why the MRSA superbug has become so dangerously immune to antibiotics, why the race is on to beat the swine flu virus.
Nevertheless, when Parker comes to explaining how the writers of Genesis knew what they knew, he can only conclude that it was due to 'divine intervention', or 'a lucky guess'. Since the odds of the latter seem fantastically remote, Parker tentatively suggests the former.



That totally refutes your unsupported claims. You pervert The Word of God, you dismiss and attack the Torah, Gods instruction to humanity, you claim to replace the jews and Israel based upon distorted and deformed interpretation of Hebrew Texts.......you.........suzi/lilly are the proverbial False Prophet, a pessimist, it took you a week to respond to an honest debate and you lied and bullshitted... thumbs up


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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:47 am

barnacle bill wrote:Save your breath Barney.....lilly is very delusional...warped...deformed.........look at the Facts in this Thread:
Australia is mostly Desert Wasteland







thumbs up

This Thread is about the Runt Continent Australia that is mostly Desert wasteland and what isn't desert wasteland is often flooded and about to be Volcanized!!!. Capiche? wave

For instance suzi wuzi/suze aka 'tru lilly/vera susa'; did you know:

Deserts comprise 1.3 million square miles or about 44% of the land area of Australia. thinking hmm wave



http://www.australiafacts.org/

Australia’s Desert Country

One third of Australia’s land is desert. Australia has 10 deserts of which the largest is the Great Victoria Desert, covering just under 5 percent of the country. Ironically, the Great Victoria Desert is not located in Victoria but is in Western Australia and South Australia. The Great Victoria Desert covers 348,750 square kilometres which makes it around one and a half times bigger than the UK or slightly smaller than Montana.

How Big is Australia?
Australia is the word’s smallest continent
noway
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deserts_of_Australia

And if it isn't Desert Wasteland and flooded it's quaking, yes Suze, Australia is amongst the most unstable of Landmasses being part of the Ring of Fire.

Do you know any truths/facts? It doesn't seem so....hmmmmmmmmmmmm........

thinking hmm noway

Australia’s first recorded earthquake after white settlement occurred at Port Jackson, New South Wales in June, 1788 and lasted for about 3 seconds.

Other earthquakes recorded in early Australian history were:

■Hobart in 1827
■South Australia 1837
■Melbourne in 1841
■Perth in 1849.
The first recorded deaths in Australia caused by earthquakes occurred in 1902, at Warooka, South Australia. Two people died of shock after a Richter magnitude 6.0 earthquake.


A train line damaged by an earthquake
In 1917, one miner died and 5 were injured in an underground rock fall triggered by an earthquake in Kalgoorlie, Western Australia.

In the last 80 years, there have been 17 earthquakes in Australia registering 6.0 or more on the Richter Scale. This is a rate of about one earthquake every five years, compared to the world average of about 140 per year.

Although the larger Australian earthquakes have caused significant damage, they are much smaller in strength than the world's most-damaging earthquakes. Until Newcastle's December 1989 earthquake, the damage caused by earthquakes in Australia had been comparatively low.

Quakes that Shook the Nation
Here is a list of some of the major earthquakes to have occured in Australia in recent times:

1 March 1954, Adelaide, South Australia
Adelaide was awakened by a loud rumbling sound. This was followed by shaking, severe enough to crack walls and loosen plaster and chimneys from many houses. Although minor compared to many overseas quakes, the Adelaide earthquake was (at magnitude 5.4) severe enough to cause damage estimated at $350 million (1997 values). No serious injuries were reported.

October 1968, Meckering, Western Australia
One of the more serious Australian earthquakes in fairly recent years occurred at the small town of Meckering. Residents reported seeing ground waves as well as experiencing difficulty when driving as the 6.9 Richter magnitude earthquake struck. Old buildings collapsed, railway lines were buckled and pipelines fractured, and a 37 kilometres long fault scarp (up to 2.5 metres high) was caused. Sixteen injuries were reported and the total cost of damage estimated $50 million.

22 January 1988, Tennant Creek, Northern Territory
Significant earthquakes of magnitudes 6.3, 6.4 and 6.8 occurred near Tennant Creek in the Northern Territory. These resulted in large, long ground ruptures and a 35 kilometre fault (up to 2 metre displacement) which warped underground gas pipelines, but caused only minor damage to the hospital and some homes in the town.

28 December 1989, Newcastle, New South Wales
At 10.27am, Newcastle, Australia's sixth largest city, was partially devastated by a moderate earthquake measuring 5.6 on the Richter Scale. The Newcastle earthquake, the first lethal one in Australia, claimed 13 lives.

The devastation to buildings and other structures was extensive, which was unusual for a relatively-small magnitude earthquake. This was due mainly to an underlying, thin layer of alluvium, which appeared to magnify ground motion (shaking). The epicentre was located 15km West Southwest of the city centre, near Boolaroo.

August 1994, Ellalong, New South Wales
A damaging earthquake again affected the Hunter region of NSW, this time in the Ellalong-Cessnock area. Measuring 5.4 on the Richter Scale, it became our third most-damaging. Several homes, hotels and other buildings suffered seriously and up to 1,000 homes were partly damaged. Infrastructure, commercial and industrial losses also occurred. Insurance payouts were $38 million and total damage costs exceeded $150 million (1997 values).

The End of a Myth

A map showing the Earth's tectonic plates and
earthquake zones.
(see the text on the left for more information)
Despite Australia's seemingly low-risk situation in the middle of one of Earth's larger tectonic plates, we have had many earthquakes larger than that of Newcastle. The map to the right shows that Australia is in the middle of the Australian-Indian Plate.

The Australian Geological Survey Organisation in Canberra estimates that on average, the Australian region experiences an earthquake of at least this size, or larger, every 13-15 months.

Most of these earthquakes have been in low populated areas, so for many years people thought Australia could not be affected by this natural disaster. The Newcastle experience dispelled this myth!

Australian Geology
Due to Australia's geological position, we are prone to what seismologists call 'intra-plate' earthquakes.

These are different to the more familiar plate-margin earthquakes, common in areas like California in the USA and in Japan.



cheese

H boobies

Soooo............if Australia isn't a Desert Wasteland, flooded or being jarred and quaked it is likely that the inhabitants are going to be Bar-B-Qued by Volcanoes, yes Suze-aka 'tru lilly/vera susa' Australia has many Volcanoes and Fault Lines which shatters your deception that Australia is a fertile and stable environment.

got anymore falsehoods you want to share?

Why are you trying to lure innocent humans to that Desert hellhole?
noway



Volcanoes and Earthquakes.




Daily Earthquake activity Reports latest news feed

Earthquake and Fault Line Maps for Australia.

Is there a risk of a volcanic eruption in Australia ?

http://home.iprimus.com.au/foo7/volcmap.html


Mount Gambier ( Eastern South Australia ) Australia's youngest volcano.
A volcano filled with water. Erupted 4,500 years ago
"...volcanic activity must be considered a serious environmental hazard and risk for the Australian mainland. " Source: The risk of volcanic eruption in mainland Australia - E. B. Joyce.............................The Western Victorian Volcanic Plains are the third largest in the world and exceeded only by the Deccan in western India, and the Snake River Plateau in the United States ( Idaho-Nebraska ).

The Victorian Volcanic Plains are located in Western Victoria and covers over 2.3 million ha (10.36% of the State).
It stretches from Portland in the west to Craigieburn in the east and from Clunes in the north to Colac in the south.........................................“ There are around 400 volcanoes stretching from the Western District of Victoria into the Western Uplands around Ballarat wave and to the north of Melbourne around Kyneton and Kilmore, in some parts of the Eastern Uplands such as to the north of Benambra, and across to the South Australian border near Mt Gambier.
A volcanic eruption in the Western Uplands could potentially see lava flows and ash falls impacting on Melbourne.

There is also similar volcano risk present in various provinces in Far North Queensland, stretching from south-west of Townsville to near Cairns and up to Cooktown in the Far North. There are more than 380 volcanoes in total across this part of Queensland.
A future eruption in any of these regions would be unlikely to come from an existing volcano (as the volcanoes there are generally considered to be 'once only’ erupters).
Rather, future eruptions would occur at new sites nearby.
The geological record shows that new volcanoes in these areas have erupted perhaps every 2000 years in the past 40,000 years—and given there has not been a major eruption there for the past 5000 years, a significant eruption seems well overdue. " (3)


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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:48 am

el kabong wrote:Common Facts About Australians

An Aussie sheila performing surprise buttsecks as part of her homeland's annual Root a Roo event. Yiff in hell,

Ausfurrians.Enjoy throwing their shrimps (it's prawns you fucking seppo chump) on barbies.

Constantly get wasted on tons of their Australian beer.

Have only 5 internets connections.

Are the world's greatest nuclear threat and the world's biggest polluters, which is hilarious given how erratic and deadly their climate already is. Enjoy your Road Warrior wasteland.

Abort their young soon after birth via dingoes, and have now gained the ability to throw 4 year old children off bridges.

All live in the desert holding knives 24/7 with accents thicker than Ron Jeremy on benzadrine.

Are all racist closet klansman with a tendency to riot.

flippin\' heck kangaroos at every given opportunity to keep up with New Zealand sheep fucking.

Kill thousands of innocent stingrays because Steve Irwin was fucking stupid enough to touch one.

Are fat, lazy, stupid cunts.

All the women are named Sheila, Shazza, Suzi Wuzi or Cheryl.

Most blokes (men folk) are named Bazza, Robbo, or Poida.

Australian culture is a fusion of the very worst American, British and Irish traits.

Australian women cumdumpsters are hot as flippin\' heck (especially Danni and Kylie), which is a redundant statement.

Are all part of the chemo that is curing /b/.

Think that the rest of the world thinks Aussies are awesome, but when they go overseas discover that everyone else thinks they are the absurd joke of humanity.




Kitty Kats protest Suzis aka Tru Lilly Spamming!!!!!! plus, she complained about 'cat Posts', what kind of savage barbarian is she???? Take heed suzi wuzi aka tru lilly, we'll shit in your hats and garden!!!!



Send in the Kittys..................... cheese

el kabong wrote:wave


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esnDnIK2v1g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB_fbBfP9yU&feature=related


thumbs up
git yer groove on!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWZwLCKyR1Q

thumbs up


. cheers








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jj3wZVc7nw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIccZsURyLc



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gha79UZVRk0&ob=av2n



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRRLTxIxNtM






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubBpu3MHmtM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-9F_z0B2TA



el kabong wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyQGn6E3Lcg&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqyv87h_zNA&feature=fvst







cheese

























[img][/img]



thumbs up cheers

mugglez

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  mugglez on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:50 am

el kabong wrote:

.....................Explain these you liar: thumbs up

WELCOME TO BIBLEPLACES

http://www.bibleplaces.com/

The Pictorial Library of Bible Lands includes pictures of the important biblical places. The pictures are easy to use, easy to locate, and of good quality. The collection contains more than 6,000 pictures (at least 500 per CD), each with a resolution of at least 1600x1200 pixels. This resolution means that images look crisp and clear, and are perfect for use with a monitor, projector, or printer (see some high-resolution samples).

Show me australia you asshole. lmao rolf

http://www.bibleplaces.com/details.htm

Explain this:

http://www.bib-arch.org/

New Synagogue Excavations In Israel and Beyond

http://www.bib-arch.org/bar/article.asp?PubID=BSBA&Volume=37&Issue=4&ArticleID=7

Archaeological Evidence verifying biblical cities

http://carm.org/archaeological-evidence-verifying-biblical-cities

There is very little doubt in anyone's mind about the reality of so many of the Old and New Testament cities mentioned in the Bible. Therefore, it is hardly necessary to document their existence. Nevertheless, following is a partial list of some of the cities mentioned in the Bible that have been found and excavated by archaeologists. This is simply more evidence that the Bible describes actual locations that can be verified. This means that at the very least, the Bible accurately reflects the locations and cities of ancient times.

Remember, this is only a partial list. There are hundreds of biblical cities that have been verified in archaeological digs.

1.Arad
A.Num. 21:1, "When the Canaanite, the king of Arad, who lived in the Negev, heard that Israel was coming by the way of Atharim, then he fought against Israel, and took some of them captive."
B.Num. 33:40, "Now the Canaanite, the king of Arad who lived in the Negev in the land of Canaan, heard of the coming of the sons of Israel."
i."Arad 30 km NE of Beersheba, excavated from 1962 to 1974 by Y. Aharoni and R. B. K. Amiran."1
ii."The site consists of an upper mound or acropolis, where excavation has revealed an Iron Age (post thirteenth century B.C.)."2
iii.The remains of a Hebrew temple were uncovered at Arad.3
2.Bethel
A.Amos 7:12-13, "Then Amaziah said to Amos, "Go, you seer, flee away to the land of Judah, and there eat bread and there do your prophesying! 13 "But no longer prophesy at Bethel, for it is a sanctuary of the king and a royal residence."
i."W. F. Albright made a trial excavation at Bethel in 1927. Albright then mounted a full excavation in 1934. His assistant that year, J. L. Kelso, continued the excavation in 1954, 1957, and 1960."4
3.Capernaum
A.Matt. 17:24, "And when they had come to Capernaum, those who collected the two-drachma tax came to Peter, and said, "Does your teacher not pay the two-drachma tax?"
i."Identified since 1856 with Tell Hum, Capernaum has been sporadically excavated for the past 130 years."5
4.Chorazin
A.Matt. 11:21, "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes."
i."Excavations of the now deserted town indicate that it once covered an area of twelve acres and was built on a series of terraces with the basalt stone local to this mountainous region."6
5.Dan
A.Judges 18:29, "And they called the name of the city Dan, after the name of Dan their father who was born in Israel; however, the name of the city formerly was Laish."
i."The excavation of Dan began in 1966 under the direction fo Avraham Biran."7
ii."Formerly called Laish, it is mentioned in the execration texts, the eighteenth-century b.c. Mari tablets, and the records of the Egyptian pharaoh Thutmose III. It is identified with Tel Dan (modern Tell el-Qadi) covering about 50 acres in the center of a fertile valley near one of the principal springs feeding the Jordan River...Tel Dan has been excavated by A. Biran since 1966. The earliest occupation, probably the full extent of the tell, goes back to about the middle of the third millennium B.C."8
6.Ephesus
A.Eph. 1:1, "Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints who are at Ephesus, and who are faithful in Christ Jesus."
i."Austrian archaeologists in this century [2oth] have excavated the 24,000-seat theater and the commercial agora, as well as many other public buildings and streets of the first and second centuries a.d., so that the modern visitor can gain some impression of the city as known by Paul.9
7.Gaza
A.Acts 8:26, "But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, "Arise and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza."
i.Gaza was was excavated by W. J. Phythian-Adams in 1922.10
8.Gezer
A.Joshua 16:10, "But they did not drive out the Canaanites who lived in Gezer..."
i.R.A.S. MacAlister "directed the Palestine Exploration Fund for many years and conducted extensive excavations at Gezer (1902–1909)."11
9.Hazor
A.Joshua 11:1, "Then it came about, when Jabin king of Hazor heard of it, that he sent to Jobab king of Madon and to the king of Shimron and to the king of Achshaph."
B.Jer. 49:28, "Concerning Kedar and the kingdoms of Hazor, which Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon defeated. Thus says the Lord, "Arise, go up to Kedar and devastate the men of the east."
i."This large Canaanite and Israelite city in upper Galilee was excavated under Yigael Yadin's direction from 1955 to 1958 and from 1968 to 1970."12
10.Hesbon
A.Josh. 12:2, "Sihon king of the Amorites, who lived in Heshbon, and ruled from Aroer, which is on the edge of the valley of the Arnon..."
i.Excavations were undertaken by Andrews University from 1968 to 1976.13
11.Jericho
A.Num. 22:1, "Then the sons of Israel journeyed, and camped in the plains of Moab beyond the Jordan opposite Jericho."
B.
i."Jericho was the oldest inhabited and fortified city ever excavated."14
ii."The city of OT times is represented today by a mound 70 feet high and 10 acres in area...The ancient city was excavated by C. Warren (1867), E. Sellin and C. Watzinger (1907-09), J. Garstang (1930-36), and K. Kenyon (1952-58)."15
iii."The first scientific excavation there (1907-9) was by Sellin and Watzinger (Jericho, 1913)."16
12.Joppa
A.Acts 9:38,"And since Lydda was near Joppa, the disciples, having heard that Peter was there, sent two men to him, entreating him, "Do not delay to come to us."
i."During excavations of the site of ancient Joppa a thirteenth-century b.c. citadel gate was uncovered...."17
13.Nineveh
A.2 Kings 19:36, "So Sennacherib king of Assyria departed and returned home, and lived at Nineveh."
B.Jonah 1:1-2, "The word of the Lord came to Jonah the son of Amittai saying, 2 "Arise, go to Nineveh the great city, and cry against it, for their wickedness has come up before Me."
i.Excavated in from 1845 to 1857 by Austen H. Layard.18
14.Shechem
A.Gen. 12:6, "And Abram passed through the land as far as the site of Shechem, to the oak of Moreh. Now the Canaanite was then in the land."
B.Gen. 33:18, "Now Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem, which is in the land of Canaan, when he came from Paddan-aram, and camped before the city."
i."Excavations were carried out at Shechem, first by Austrian-German expeditions in 1913 and 1914, and again from 1926 to 1934, under several directors, and then by an American expedition from 1956 to 1972....Excavation of the sacred area revealed a courtyard sanctuary and a later fortress temple dedicated to El-berith "the god of the covenant." This temple, which was destroyed by Abimelech, the son of the judge Gideon (Judges 9) has provided us with a date of the judges period."19
ii.Most recently a structure identified as an Israelite altar has been excavated on the northeastern slope of Mt. Ebal. Dating to the 13th to 12th centuries B.C., considered to be the time of Joshua, the altar suggest the possibility that it may be the altar built by Joshua and described in Deuteronomy 27, 28."20
15.Susa
A.Neh. 1:1, "The words of Nehemiah the son of Hacaliah. Now it happened in the month Chislev, in the twentieth year, while I was in Susa the capitol,
B.Esther 1:1-2, "Now it took place in the days of Ahasuerus, the Ahasuerus who reigned from India to Ethiopia over 127 provinces, 2 in those days as King Ahasuerus sat on his royal throne which was in Susa the capital,
i.Escavations were conducted by Marcel Dieulafoy from 1884 to 1886.21
There is very little doubt in anyone's mind about the reality of so many of the Old and New Testament cities mentioned in the Bible. Therefore it is hardly necessary to document their existence. Nevertheless, following is a partial list of some of the cities mentioned in the Bible that have been found and excavated by archaeologists. This is simply more evidence that the Bible describes actual locations that can be verified. This means that at the very least, the Bible accurately reflects the locations and cities of ancient times.


Europe is larger then Australia, got more of everything. thumbs up

Asia (plus the Middle East) 17,212,000 Sq. Miles (44,579,000 Sq. Km) 30.0%
Africa 11,608,000 Sq. Miles (30,065,000 Sq. Km) 20.3%
North America 9,365,000 Sq. Miles (24,256,000 Sq. Km) 16.3%
South America 6,880,000 Sq. Miles (17,819,000 Sq. Km) 12.0%
Antarctica 5,100,000 Sq. Miles (13,209,000 Sq. Km) 8.9%
Europe 3,837,000 Sq. Miles (9,938,000 Sq. Km) 6.7%
Australia (plus Oceania) 2,968,000 Sq. Miles (7,687,000 Sq. Km) 5.2%


Australia is the Runt Continent, the smallest. thumbs up


lillywilly...... wave

did you know Europe includes Russia east to the Ural mountains? cheers

try to overlay that on your map of Australia, the Runt Continent, and the entirety of Australia would be obscured. thumbs up



Notice: North America is 3 times larger then Australia, it's like you have penis envy lillywilly. rolf

true lilly wrote:Did you know you didn't even get close to countering
what God described from the beginning, and I have
shown to be so, for years...rhetorical...I know you do,
but hey...you just have to keep 'peddling'...or you fall
DOWN...before you are CUT down.



IN FACT,
SHOW ME ANYWHERE IN THAT TERRITORY
WHERE YOU CAN FIT, 5 TO 10%
OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION!



I CAN SHOW YOU ONE WHERE YOU CAN,
and UNlike ALL other land masses, NOT
littered with Earthquakes and Volcanoes!
[/b]

The sad thing is, that thinking folk know you are not arguing with me
(you fought and lost that war years ago), but are desperately trying to
stop others seeing the reality of the whole real world, from the beginning,
as God described it, lest they also see that No Land Can SAVE anyone,
but God exists and HE DOES, Preserve and SAVE, as He Promised.[/color]


gibberish.....gibberish..........gibberish..etcetera.... etcetera.... etcetera.... etcetera.... etcetera.... etcetera....

thumbs up

rolf

lmao

rolf

FIRST: Where was the first alphabet formed, the means of communication that YHWH used to communicate to humankind? The Siani Desert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Sinaitic_alphabet






Proto-Sinaitic, also known as Proto-Canaanite, was the first consonantal alphabet. Even a quick and cursory glance at its inventory of signs makes this script's Egyptian origin very apparent.[citation needed] Originally it was thought that at round 1700 BCE, Sinai was conquered by Egypt, and the local West-Semitic population were influenced by Egyptian culture and adopted a small number of hieroglyphic signs (about 30) to write their own language. However, recent discoveries in Egypt itself have compounded this scenario. Inscriptions dating to 1900 BCE written in what appears to be Proto-Sinaitic were found in Upper Egypt, and nearby Egyptian texts speak of the presence of Semitic-speaking people living in Egypt
thumbs up ALL the worlds population-6/7,ooo,ooo,ooo,ooo peeps would fit in a landmass the size of Rhode Island or Delaware....there are 1.5 million people per square mile in Mumbai. Regardless, all the worlds people don't have to be in one place. thumbs up I've refuted your 'theory/hypothesis.....1,000 times..........You calll YHWH and Yahshua/jesus liars.

You're an Antisemitic NeoNazi. you curse israel. 12 And YHWH said to Abram, “Go yourself outh of your land, from your relatives and from your father’s house, to a land which I show you. 2“And I shall make you a great nation, and bless you and make your name great, and you shall be a blessing! 3“And I shall bless those who bless you, and curse him who curses you. And in you all the clans of the earth shall be blessed.” thumbs up

There is written History aqnd archaeological Artifacts that refute your nonsense. thumbs up

Zion is/in Israel. Yerushalayim/Jerusalem is the Capital
. thumbs up

JESUS AND THE IDENTITY OF GOD

http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_JIG.htm

that it is after all possible to conceive of a first century Jew credibly coming to believe that he was called to die for the sins of Israel, and perhaps even of the world. Also he admits it is possible to conceive of a first century Jew credibly coming to believe that he was called to do and be what, in scripture, only YHWH, Israel’s God, gets to do and to be.......................The Jews believed in a quite different “god.” This god, YHWH, “the One Who Is,” the Sovereign One, was not simply the objectification of forces and drives within the world, but was the maker of all that exists. Several biblical books, or parts thereof, are devoted to exploring the difference between YHWH and the pagan idols: Daniel, Isaiah 40-55, and a good many Psalms spring obviously to mind. The theme is summed up in the Jewish daily prayer: “YHWH our God, YHWH is one!”[10]

..............Since, the early Christians all regarded Jesus as the Messiah of Israel, the one in whom Israel’s destiny had been summed up............But it is not merely a NT dogma that Jesus brings the story of Israel to its climax, and so becomes the instrument of God’s long-promised salvation. Israel’s story is not a notion, floating two miles in the sky above the Palestine of Jesus’ day. Israel’s story was the real flesh-and-blood, wars-and-rumours-of-wars story of the Maccabees and the Herodians, of Judas the Galilean, Simon bar Giona, of the Jewish War, of Josephus, of a hundred kingdom movements and a hundred thousand crosses planted around Jerusalem. This was the story, the warts-and-all story, that Jesus of Nazareth brought to its god-ordained climax. If we want to know the truth of the salvation which he wrought, that is where we must look for it and not somewhere else. ...................I have argued elsewhere that a central feature of Jewish expectation, and kingdom expectation at that, in Jesus’ time was the hope that YHWH would return in person to Zion. Having abandoned Jerusalem at the time of the exile, his return was delayed, but he would come back at last. .......................And Jesus seems to have believed it about himself. The language was deeply coded, but the symbolic action was not. He was coming to Zion, doing what YHWH had promised to do. He explained his action with riddles all pointing in the same direction. Recognize this, and you start to see it all over the place, especially in parables and actions whose other layers have preoccupied us. Why, after all, does Jesus tell a story about a yearning father in order to account for his own behavior?[36] It is this that also accounts for his sovereign attitude to Torah, his speaking on behalf of Wisdom, and his announcement of forgiveness of sins.[37] By themselves none of these would be conclusive. Even if they are allowed to stand as words and actions of Jesus, they remain cryptic. But predicate them of the same young man who is then on his way to Jerusalem to confront the powers that be with the message and the action of the kingdom of God and who tells stories as he does which are best interpreted as stories of YHWH returning to Zion, then you have reached. I believe, the deep heart of Jesus’ own sense of vocation. He believed himself called to do and be what in the scriptures only Israel’s God did and was.

............................What are we therefore saying about the earthly Jesus? In Jesus himself, I suggest we see the biblical portrait of YHWH come to life: the loving God, rolling up his sleeves (Isa 52:10) to do in person the job that no one else could do, the creator God giving new life the God who works through his created world and supremely through his human creatures, the faithful God dwelling in the midst of his people, the stern and tender God relentlessly opposed to all that destroys or distorts the good creation, and especially human beings, but recklessly loving all those in need and distress. “He shall feed his flock like a shepherd; he shall carry the lambs in his arms; and gently lead those that are with young” (Isa 40:11). It is the OT portrait of YHWH, but it fits Jesus like a glove.
............

lillywilly, this is why I repeatedly ask you if you are able to conprehend the following data. Put a cork in your conspiralunacy and answer intelligently, if you can.

Do you comprehend the following?
it is Pro ALL Humankind, Pro ALL the earth.
thumbs up

Tzelem Elokim=Humankind as Image of Yah

1: Has Intelligence

2: Has Freewill

3: Has component of Spiritual Being-A Soul

4: HaShem/YHWH Rules the Universe and Spirit World, Humans have dominion over the Lower World.

5: Has the faculty of Judgement

6: Has an inherent Holiness and Dignity

As created in the image of God, humans are endowed with "three intrinsic dignities": infinite value, equality, and uniqueness.

The first means that human life cannot be weighed, measured, or compared in terms of, that is, subordinated to, any other value. In the Kantian Parlance humans are always a goal or end in themselves and never a means to something else.

The second term implies that no person or group is privileged over another. In fact, Idolatry results when a person or group absolutizes itself or its message.

The third idea reinforces the dignity of every human by insisting that each person is irreplaceable and has a special role to play in the redemption of the world.

The jewish religion is founded on the divine assurance and human belief that the world will be perfected." [5] Judaism engages with and seeks to overcome these realities of history through its notion of covenant. The covenant is that dynamic which God inaugurated in history, that partnership between God and the jewish people, to achieve the dignities for which all humans were created. Jews are those teachers, models, and co-workers-having both a divine and human partners - whom God designated to help all persons and even nature achieve redemption. For Greenberg, the messianic dream of perfection will not be realized by divine fiat, but by "improving this world, one step at a time." cheers

These understandings of God, humans, and the world are expressed through the Torah and lived-out by the Jewish people through the Holy days and the Halakhah. In this view, Torah is that divine teaching which stands as "the constitution of the ongoing relationship of God and the Jewish people." Rabbi Greenberg

This expanded view/articulation of higher values help us to search for Yahwehs presence in the secular Realms of Life, some peeps call this: 'Holy Secularism'.

The Covenant is essentially a Divine, Loving, Pedagogic process. As Humans become more competent, Yahweh invites them to take up a more active role in the Task of Tikun Olam/World to Come, as Co-Creators.

The lay people of Yahweh play a more influential role in discerning Yahwehs purpose and in carrying out His Divine Mandates.

Later, ensuing Historical events reshape understandings of earlier Teachings.


Three Revolutionary Innovations in Human History took place.

1: Monotheism

2:Universal Codified Law

3: An Aleph/Bet 1,800 BCE

Monotheism rather then Polytheism, Rule of Law for All rather then the Divine Rights of Kings or Queens and an Aleph/Bet, less then thirty characters that replaced Iconographs/Ideograms and Hieroglyphs, enhancin Literacy amongst the masses.

The abstraction of all these innovations were mutually reinforcing.

Yahweh proclaimed that there exists a Codex of morality that stands above Human intercourse.

The 10 Commandments applied universally to everyone. no King, Pharoah, or Potentate was above the Law.

Refutes the rubric that 'Might makes Right'.

Yahweh expected all His Chosen peeps TO READ what He inspired to be written.

The Pentateuch is the oldest Book written in an Aleph/Bet-Alpha/Bet. Prior books were written in Cuneiform, Hierglyphs etc......

Yahweh forbade anyone from visualising Him. No Images. No Idolatry.

He sanctioned only the written word.

This promulgates equality and openness.

An overarching Theme of the Pentateuch, and ensuing Books of the Bible is: Justice for all.

A distinguishing feature of the Pentateuch from other belief systems of the Time is its dominating Theme of: Righteousness,

Living a pious life and obeying written law was/is more important than winning Battles, honouring the King, or sacrificing to a local god.

Justice for all was a unique community standard in an era when the dominant principle was a raised and clenched fist.

Due to the Concept/Principle of Right Living, a unique type of leader arose amongst the Israelites: The Prophet.

Biblical Prophets; seemingly self-appointed, claiming to receive Testable Signals from Yahweh; witnessed and criticized Israeli behaviour;
confronting the peeps baser urges.

Unlike other ANE Sagas, the Prophets were usually not Royalty, heroes, warriors, they were commen men who railed against injustice and impiety. Constantly upbraiding/Chastizing/Rebuking Israelites; reminding them that Yahweh cared only that his people lived in Truth.

Prophets did not achieve their position by Birthright, appointment or election, they were Inspired and Just.

Unlike other ANE Sagas, the Exodus begins with the people shackled slaves.

Unlike other ANE Sagas, Yahweh 'Chose' the people rather then the people choosing their god.

From Rabbi Greenbergs book, 'For the Sake of Heaven & Earth.
Jews and Xns are redicovering 'The Image of Yah' in each other, after a coupla millenia of discord and animus.

This rediscovery allows each to uncover and affirm each others role in the Divine Plan. The Kingdom of Yahweh is advanced and comes closer.

'You are my witnesses says Yahweh' Isaiah 43:10

The People of Israel are Yahwehs Servants, 'Chosen' to witness to the loving Creator and the Divine Plan for Humanity and the Cosmos.

The People of Israel = not just the Israelis, or Jews, but to all who affirm that Yahweh has made a valid Covenant with Abraham and his descendants and all who take up the task of World Redemption so that the covenant can be fulfilled.

For that is the purpose of making the covenant.

Xns and Muslims are recognized as Abrahams children when they purge themselves of Supersessionist claims and hatred of Jews.

To be True to its Witness, the People of Israel tell 3 Stories to the World, the rest of Humanity, in the presence of Yahweh and in the presence of their fellow Humans.

1: They tell the Story of Creation, the Divine Vision of an intended perfect World. Jew & Xn stake their existence that this World will come to be.

2: The Story of the Covenant, the process operating between a Divine-Human partnership whereby our imperfect World will be brought back to that state of Perfection.

3: The Story of Redemption-sometimes called: 'The End of Days'-'The Messiah Story'-which is the culmination and realization of the process.

At the end, Holistic perfection will be achieved.

Peace between Humans.

Between Humans and all the rest of Life, between all Life and Nature itself, and between all of the above and Yahweh.

Three Stories add up to one comprehensive Story: The Triumph of Life

Summarized

We=ALL Living things-creatures-sustained and Nurtured by Yahweh-will fill the World with Life.

* We will reshape the Historical Reality, the Flesh & Blood world we inhabit, to sustain that Life at the highest possible level.

* Life will multiply and triumph Quantitatively over allits enemies; including Entropy, Death, and Disorder.

* Life will equally triumph Qualitatively.

* All of lifes capacities/potentials will be developed fully and realized.

* When Life blossoms to its fullest capacity that treats all Life, especially Human Life-the most developed form-and sustains it with the highest and fullest respect that it deserves, then Life will be in harmony with existence and deeply related to Yahweh, its Source and Sustainer(Natural Laws)

* This is the Jews Story, and by default; the Christians/Xns.

* Telling the Story of Creation is the Jews 'Witness'. The present evidentiary Facts contradict the Narrative fairly substantialy.

* Yet, This Story of Creation is shared by Jews and Xns.

* This Story leads Humans to see existence as best they can, from a Cosmic Perspective-Sub Specie Aeternitatis.

* From that Vantage Point there are Three Grand Movements in the unfolding Pattern of the Cosmos

1: The World is moving from Chaos to Order. From the Big Bang, with no Laws of Nature to the regularity of the Life sustaining Laws of Nature.

2: The World is moving from Non-Life to Life. From a State in which no life existed to the emergence of Life. From one cell, untold replications, life has grown Quantitatively, and developed Qualitatively. It has luxuriated and spread into a vast range of forms over and through a variety of sustaining conditions/environments.

* The declaration that Life is growing, moving from non-life to life is counter-intuitive.
Death & Entropy refute that contention.

The 'Key' is Yahweh-The Hidden, Infinite Source of Life with limitless Goodness, Love and Power that sustains Life and Nurtures every possible Form of Life into Being.

* Yahweh, the Divine Source evokes the Third Grand Movement of the Cosmos

3: Life is growing ever more to resemble its Ground: Yahweh.

Life moves from being less to becoming more and more like Yahweh. The highest form of Life, the Human Being, represents the High Point reached thus far.

In Human Form, life so resembles its Maker that it is called; Biblically; 'The Image of Yah'

* This emergence of "The Image of Yah" is the Turning Point in Cosmic History according to Jews & Xns.

Up to that point Life has been sworn to 'Be Fruitful & Multiply' (maximizing reproductive success) through a built-in control Programme-A 'Selfish Gene'- that drives the process.

* The 'Image of Yahs' Consciousness is so much like Yahwehs that Humans are able to 'grasp' this overall pattern of which we, ourselves are part, and to join voluntarily in its realization.

* Similarly, The Human 'Image of Yah' has a capacity to Love ALL their fellow creatures and every aspect of the Universe, as well as the Maker of it all and the Beauty of the Plan.

* Once Humans understand and embrace this understanding, they will lovingly identify with and willingly participate in the process of Perfection.

* Yahweh has invited us, as Humans, The 'Image of Yah', to enter into a Covenantal Partnership, committed to Love, to join fully in perfecting the Universe.

Tikun Olam

* The People of Israel joyfully acknowledge that Yahwehs first Covenant, the Noahide Covenant, never superseded, is made with ALL Humanity, not exclusively with Jews and/or Xns alone.

* It is made with ALL Sentient Beings.

* ALL Beings are called to recognize and participate in Natures Patterns.

* To accept Limits.

* To Direct their choices and actions in favour of Life.

* To join in working for Order against Chaos.

* We are ALL CHOSEN to become part of the movement from Non-Life to Life.

* We are commanded to increase Life and make it grow ever more like its Maker.


* The purpose of the Religious way of life is to create the nurturing ambience of memory and experience, of relationships and actions that sustain Human growth and turns it towards Yahweh.

* Being in the 'Image of Yahweh' brings with it more Yahweh like capacities. It bestows intrinsic Dignity, a climatic extension of that respect to which all of life is entitled.

* The People of Israel hold these Truths to be self-evident: That ALL Humans are created in 'The Image of Yahweh'; and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rightts, among which are:

* Infinite Value

* Equality

* Uniqueness.

These are Birthrights of every Son & Daughter of Yahweh

The Siani Event was the ultimate Social Engineering event.

The Torah is the first, and oldest Book written in an Alphabet/Alephbet ........this alters the hegemony of the Brain to being left hemisphereical centric=Abstract, linear and sequential.the ground for Theoretical Science.....

An Alphabet=less then 30 abstract images.......enabled universal literacy and numerancy.

Egyptians/Sumerians, Ugarits only produced 2% Literacy, among the Royalty and Priesthoods.


As Yahshua Messiah said-"This is The Way'.

Yo!!!! Suzy Woo Woo, clue me up how lying about Gods Book is 'getting right' with Him, or for that matter, gossiping and judging and cursing others is 'getting right' with Him?

You, propose, without any credentials or prerequisite education in Hebrew, that you are able to interpret the Jews Sacred Hebrew scriptures better, more accurately; then ALL the Rabbis/Teachers and credentialed Biblical Scholars on Planet Earth and make the preposterous, unsupported claim that the Hebrew word Mizraim does not mean Egypt, or that the Hebrews did not sojourn from Egypt, through the Sinai into Canaan/Israel.

You're Hubris is so gargantuan you use a Language you do not know: Hebrew, and attempt to write the Jews and Israel out of their own Book.......your Hubris is of monumental size. You claim the Torah is 'done away' with and then proceed to reinterpret it.

Explain that. thumbs up


I proved you were wrong about your False Doctrine of Church replacement of the Jews and Israel Theology.

http://www.shema.com/Combating%20Replacement%20Theology/crt-004.php

I proved you wrong about your False Theology that Yahshua/Jesus and the Apostles 'did away' with YHWHs Torah/Instruction.

http://www.yrm.org/yah_p_law.htm

Romans 10:4—
For Yahshua is the ultimate result of keeping the Law unto righteousness for everyone who believes.


"I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods in My presence..."
This commandment is to be aware that the God of Israel exists absolutely and influences all events in the world[23][dead link] and that the goal of the redemption from Egypt was to become His servants (Rashi). It requires the acknowledgment of the single God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the denial of the existence of false gods (Rashi)



Yahshua said (Matthew 23:37-40) “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang (hinge) all the law and the prophets.”

The whole point of Human existence is to learn and practice the SEcond Commandment that Yahshua declares...........Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. ........so far you are failing miserably............. thumbs up ...........gossiping, judging, fearmongering, bearing false witness...........time to shape up and fly right Suzy Woo Woo............... thumbs up

Time to stand Toe to Toe like you falsely claim you do......support your False Teachings.................you extract Scripture from it context to twist it to fit your bias, Noah was 10 Generations AFTER Adam, long after the continents divided, Peleg was 5 Generations after Noah, the verse you twist to claim it is about the Continents Dividing means no such thing...it is in relation to the Tower of Babylon incident when YHWH confused the tongues of Humankind and dispersed them to the far corners of the Earth.........the whole icident is about the Hubris of humans, something you should, but don't recognize....read/study the following Documents.
thumbs up

Studies in the Book of Genesis Part 1:
The Curse of Canaan
Allen P. Ross


http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hildebrandt/OTeSources/01-Genesis/Text/Articles-Books/Ross_CurseOfCanaan_BSac.pdf


Genesis, the book of beginnings, is primarily concerned with
tracing the development of God's program of blessing. The bless-
ing is pronounced on God's creation, but sin (with its subsequent
curse) brought deterioration and decay. After the Flood there is a
new beginning with a renewal of the decrees of blessing, but once
again corruption and rebellion leave the human race alienated
and scattered across the face of the earth. Against this backdrop
God began His program of blessing again, promising blessing to
those obedient in faith and cursing to those who rebel. The rest of
the book explains how this blessing developed: God's chosen
people would become a great nation and inherit the land of Ca-
aan. So throughout Genesis the motifs of blessing and cursing
occur again and again in connection with those who are chosen
and those who are not......................The purpose of this section in Genesis, then, is to portray the
characteristics of the three branches of the human race in rela-
tion to blessing and cursing. In pronouncing the oracle, Noah
discerned the traits of his sons and, in a moment of insight,
determined that the attributes of their descendants were em-
bodied in their personalities.2 Because these sons were pri-
mogenitors of the families of the earth, the narrator is more
interested in the greater meaning of the oracle with respect to
tribes and nations in his day than with the children of Shem,
Ham, and Japheth.3
Shem, the ancestor of the Shemites to whom the Hebrews
belonged, acted in good taste and was blessed with the possession
of the knowledge of the true God, Yahweh. Japheth, the ancestor
of the far-flung northern tribes which include the Hellenic
peoples,4 also acted properly and thus shared in the blessing of
Shem and was promised geographical expansion. In contrast,
Ham, represented most clearly to Israel by the Egyptians and
Canaanites, acted wrongly in violating sexual customs regarded
as sacred and as a result had one line of his descendants cursed
with subjugation.5
So the oracle of Noah, far from being concerned simply with
the fortunes of the immediate family, actually pertains to vast
movements of ancient peoples...................Canaan, then, is the prototype of the population that suc-
cumbed to enervating influences and was doomed by its vices to
enslavement at the hands of hardier and more virtuous races.52
Because Ham, the "father" of Canaan, had desecrated the honor
of his father by seeing his uncovered nakedness, this divine and
prophetic oracle is pronounced on the people who would be
known for their immorality in a shameful way, a trait discernible
in this little story in the history of beginnings.
The blessing aspect is given to Shem, but the wording is
unexpected: "Blessed be the LORD [Yahweh], the God of Shem."
The emphasis on the possession of God by his name is
strengthened in this line in a subtle way. Delitzsch says, "Yahweh
makes himself a name in becoming the God of Shem, and thus
entwines His name with that of Shem, which means ‘name.’53
By blessing one's God, the man himself is blessed. The idea is
that Shem will ascribe his good fortune to Yahweh his God, for his
advantage is not personal merit; his portion is Yahweh.54 The
great line of blessing will be continued through Shem from Noah
to Abram, the man of promise.
Here again, however, the point of the oracle looks to the
descendants. It would then be clear to Israel, who found them-
selves in such a personal, covenantal relationship with Yahweh,
that they were the heirs of this blessing..........


4Unfortunately Part 2 I have not found on the 'Net, for free ($50).....here are Parts 3 & 4


Who is this 'god' you serve? It can't be YHWH. You know nothing of Him or His Plan for humankind.

Studies in the Book of Genesis Part 3:

The Table of Nations in

Genesis 10--Its Content

Allen P. Ross



http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/Ted_Hildebrandt/OTeSources/01-Genesis/Text/Articles-Books/Ross-TableNations-BSac.htm

THE SONS OF HAM (10:6-20)

More attention is given to the line of Ham than to that of

Japheth or Shem. Ham's line has four branches: Cush, Mizraim,

Put, and Canaan. All four are probably place names for Nubia-

Egypt, Upper and Lower Egypt, Libya, and Phoenicia-Palestine

respectively. In addition, the descendants of these four are both

places and tribes.

Ham is the ancestor of all these people from Phoenicia to

Africa. The etymology of the word Ham is disputed,18 but it is

used to depict countries in close proximity to Egypt.

Cush is the "eldest son" according to the plan of the Table. In

antiquity this was an independent kingdom on the southern

flank of Egypt; and especially during the reign of Kamose it

served as the backbone of the Egyptian army, helping to expel the

Asiatics (Hyksos).19 So the list begins in the far south with the

African tribes known to the Greeks as Ethiopians.

Mizraim lies to the north of Cush. The word occurs almost

ninety times in the Old Testament for Egypt...................Mizraim developed

into tribes. From the Egyptians sprang the Ludim, a group of

African tribes west of the Delta;36 the Anamim, in the vicinity of

Cyrene;37 the Lehabim, the Libyans on the north African shore

(Nah. 3:9 and Dan. 11:43); the Naphtuhim, the people of the

Delta (Lower Egypt); the Pathrusim, the people of Upper Egypt;38

the Casluhim, the people who dwelt east of the Delta between

Egypt and Canaan;39 and the Caphtorim, the Cretans.40

The clause "from whence come the Philistines" is problem-

atic because of its position in the text. Scripture connects the

origin of the Philistines with Caphtor (Amos 9:7; Deut. 2:23;

Jer. 47:4), but the Caphtorim, the Cretans, come after this

clause. While some have suggested rearranging the clauses, it

may not be necessary. The clause in the Table suggests migration

and not lineage. Amos has the Philistines from Caphtor in the

same sense that Israel was from Egypt--migration and not

origination.41 The difficulty may be solved by looking at their

origin and their migration from the Aegean bases through Caph-

tor into the Delta and finally into Palestine.

.................................That the promised land is central to the Table can be seen

from the arrangement of the descendants. The Japhethites are

spread from east to west across the northern frontier; the Ham-

ites surround the land from south to west; and the Shemites are

traced from the eastern to the southern borders of the land.

Moreover, the preoccupation with the Canaanites in the land of

promise shows the concern of the writer to fit the Table to the

message of the book: the fulfillment of God's promise to bless

Israel as a nation in that land, and to bless those nations that

bless her, and curse those who are antagonistic to her.

The Table then deliberately selected these tribes and traced

their development.
...............................The passage then refers to the developing line from Arpach-shad, using the form through Shelah to Eber. One of Eber's

sons is Peleg, in whose days the earth was divided (probably

referring to the division of nations at Babel 52). Once the Table

mentions Peleg, it traces his line no further.
.................According to Genesis, the new nation of Israel was to be

blessed as God's people in the land of Canaan. God's plan to bless

Israel involved the movement, displacement, and subjugation of

other peoples. The oracle of Noah in Genesis 9 anticipated the

blessing for Shem, along with Japheth, and the cursing of Ca-

naan, a son of Ham. This Table in Genesis 10 gives direction to

that oracle. It presents the lines of Shem and Japheth as pure

tribal groups around the promised land; it also presents the old

block of Hamites, especially the mixed races in the land of Ca-

naan, as the predominant powers on the earth
........................
wave


Studies in the Book of Genesis
Part 4:
The Dispersion of the
Nations in Genesis 11:1-9
Allen P. Ross
Introduction to the Passage


http://faculty.gordon.edu/hu/bi/ted_hildebrandt/OTeSources/01-Genesis/Text/Articles-Books/Ross-DispersionGn11-BSac.pdf

THE NATURE OF THE ACCOUNT
The narrative in Genesis 11:1-9 describes the divine inter-
vention among the human family to scatter them across the face
of the earth by means of striking at the :heart of their unity- their
language. A quick reading of the passage shows that the pre-
dominant idea is not the tower of Babel but this scattering.
If the point is not simply the tower, then this passage does not
present, as some have suggested, a Hebrew adaptation of the
Greek Titans storming heaven to dislodge God. Rather, the char-
acteristics of the people in this story are anxiety and pride
through their own gregariousness.1 The tower, on the one hand,
is born from the people's fear of being scattered across the earth;
and on the other hand it is an attempt to frustrate God's plan to
fill the earth (Gen. 9:1).
The sin. Since the story has the trappings of a judgment
narrative in which Yahweh interrupts mankind's misguided
activities and scatters them abroad, it may be assumed that the
antithesis of this scattering must be the sin. The major error was
not the building of a city, but the attempt of the race to live in one
City.2 Therefore it appears that the human family was striving for
unity, security, and social immortality (making a name) in de-
fiance of God's desire for them to fill the earth.
Divine punishment. It is important to keep in mind that the
"judgment" was not the destruction of the city but of the language that united the people. It was shattered into a multiplicity
of languages so that the common bond was destroyed.3 Thus the
text is demonstrating that the present number of languages that
form national barriers is a monument to sin.....................So it is with this story that the common history of all man-
kind comes to an abrupt end, which leaves the human race
hopelessly scattered across the face of the entire earth. It is this
that makes the present narrative so different from those preced-
ing it: In each judgment there was a gracious provision for hope
but in this judgment there is none. It does not offer a token of
grace, a promise of any blessing, a hope of salvation, or a way of
escape. There is no clothing for the naked sinner, no protective
mark for the fugitive, no rainbow in the dark sky. There is no ray
of hope. The primeval age ends with judgmental scattering and
complete confusion. The blessing is not here; the world must
await the new history.
In view of this, the story of the scattering of the nations is
actually the turning point of the book from primeval history to
the history of the blessing. From this very confused and dis-
persed situation nations would develop in utter futility until God
would make a great nation through one man who himself would
be "scattered" from this alluvial plain to the land of Canaan. The
blessings of final redemption and unification would come
through his seed.........................Irony is seen in the beginning and the ending of this pas-
sage. The group at Babel began as the whole earth (11:1), but
now they were spread over the whole earth (11:9). By this the
lesson is clarified: God's purpose will be accomplished in spite of
the arrogance and defiance of man's own purposes. He brings
down the proud, but exalts the faithful.
The significance of this little story is great. It explains to
God's people how the nations were scattered abroad. Yet the
import goes much deeper. The fact that it was Babylon, the
beginning of kingdoms under Nimrod from Cush, adds a rather
ominous warning: Great nations cannot defy God and long sur-
vive. The new nation of Israel need only survey the many nations
around her to perceive that God disperses and curses the rebel-
lious, bringing utter confusion and antagonism among them. If
Israel would obey and submit to God's will, then she would be the
source of blessing to the world.
Unfortunately, Israel also raised her head in pride and re-
fused to obey the Lord God. Thus she too was scattered across the
face of the earth.

thumbs up wave cheers wacky boobies


Bullshit lilly, I've countered every one of your false arguments, you have never replied. Define Zion....Mizraim.....Torah.........Israel..........you attack the jews, the Torah and Israel, you quote scripture like satan to distort and deform it to fit YOUR agenda....... thumbs up


......................For those who falsely claim that Yahshua Messiah/Jesus 'Did away with' the Torah/Laws of YHWH, I challenge you to explain these verses of Scripture.

http://www.eliyah.com/thescriptures/

Matthew 4
1 Then Yahshua was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tried by the devil.

2 And after having fasted forty days and forty nights, He was hungry.

3 And the trier came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of Elohim, command that these stones become bread.”

4 But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of YHWH.’ ”

5 Then the devil took Him up into the set- apart city, set Him on the edge of the Set- apart Place,

6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of Elohim, throw Yourself down. For it has been written, ‘He shall command His messengers concerning you,’ and, ‘In their hands they shall bear you up, so that you do not dash your foot against a stone.’ ”

7 Yahshua said to him, “It has also been written, ‘You shall not try YHWH your Elohim.’ ”

8 Again, the devil took Him up on a very high mountain, and showed Him all the reigns of the world, and their esteem,

9 and said to Him, “All these I shall give You if You fall down and worship me.”

10 Then Yahshua said to him, “Go, Satan! For it has been written, ‘You shall worship YHWH your Elohim, and Him alone you shall serve.’



Yahshua cites Torah 3 Times with Authority....beaware of the False Teachers.

Is the New Testament Yahweh's Word?

Don't Accept The New Testament As Yahweh's Word On The Basis Of Human Tradition

http://www.serveyahweh.org/Religion/newtestament.htm

Live By Every Word That Proceeds Out Of Yahweh's Mouth
Matthew 4:4 reads,

4:4But he answered, "It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’"

In these comments Yah'shuah quoted from Moses' words to the children of Israel in Deuteronomy 8:3,

8:3He humbled you, and allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna, which you didn’t know, neither did your fathers know; that he might make you know that man does not live by bread only, but by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of Yahweh does man live.






mugglez

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:25 pm

If they want to be closer to their relatives, why did they move?
Andrew Bolt – Monday, February 13, 12 (09:36 am)

So much talk about entitlements, so little about obligations:
<blockquote>NEW migrants should get taxpayer subsidies to visit overseas relatives, an Islamic group has told the Federal Government.

The Islamic Women’s Welfare Association also says Muslims prefer to live
close to their own people and Australia should consider how to
“facilitate the purchase of homes for new migrants”.

In a submission to a federal multicultural inquiry, the association has
urged the Government to give tax deductions to newly arrived migrants so
they can visit relatives in their homelands.

“Migrants face a lot of sacrifices such as having to travel long
distances to visit relatives, spending on communication costs, missing
out on some events occurring in native countries etc,” the submission
said.

“This loss should be compensated by the Government in one way or the other to retain migrants in their country of adoption.

</blockquote>
But one sacrifice these ladies aren’t prepared to make is to work for their trips themselves:

<blockquote>...the majority of sisters who attend IWWA do not work...
</blockquote>
And why not ask for handouts for your pleasures, when government seems
so disposed to fund them anyway? Take this NSW Government grant:

<blockquote>
Islamic Women’s Welfare Association - Indoor Sports For Young Muslim Girls - $8,900


</blockquote>And this from the City of Canterbury:

<blockquote>Islamic Women’s Welfare Association 1,775

</blockquote> 79 comments |
Permalink

Politicians say yes, but do the Greeks say no?
Andrew Bolt – Monday, February 13, 12 (10:10 am)

So far, so dangerous:


<blockquote>Politicians in Greece have voted in support of a crucial austerity and debt-relief
bill needed to avoid bankruptcy, as riots raged in Athens.


The latest harsh cuts are a requirement by rescue lenders to grant a
euro 130 billion ($A161 billion) second bailout and a related deal with
private creditors to slash the national debt by euro 100 billion ($163
billion) off the national debt.


The vote occurred after at least 10 buildings were burnt down and dozens of shops looted across central Athens.


More than 100,000 demonstrated outside parliament. Dozens of people have
been injured and police detained more than 20 suspected rioters.

</blockquote>

47 comments |
Permalink

true lilly

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Fri Feb 17, 2012 7:52 pm



Tomorrow will be the 70th anniversary
of
the first Japanese air raid on Darwin.

The bombing, which killed
an estimated 300 people,

shocked the nation in its ferocity.

Picture: Getty Images
Read More

true lilly

Posts : 6205
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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:27 pm


true lilly wrote:
Tomorrow will be the 70th anniversary
of
the first Japanese air raid on Darwin.

The bombing, which killed
an estimated 300 people,

shocked the nation in its ferocity.

Picture: Getty Images
Read More


Crew wait for a Greek air force helicopter
to pluck them from their sinking super yacht
which suffered mechanical failure
during a wild storm in the Aegean.


Picture: AFP
Read More

true lilly

Posts : 6205
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 55
Location : VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Sat Feb 18, 2012 4:35 am

9:11 91 19 19 11 11

Black Caviar left her run late but still
made it to the finish with plenty to spare
in today's Lightning Stakes at Flemington.
Picture: Supplied Read More


Whitney Houston's daughter Bobbi Kristina
arrives for a private viewing of her mother,
the day before the singer's funeral
is aired live around the world.
WATCH THE FUNERAL LIVE HERE TOMORROW.

Picture: AFP Read More


Tomorrow will be the 70th anniversary of
the first Japanese air raid on Darwin.
The bombing, which killed an estimated 300 people,
shocked the nation in its ferocity.
Picture: Getty Images Read More


Champion Black Caviar held out rivals
Hay List and Buffering in the Lightning Stakes
to post her 19th straight career win. Jockey
Luke Nolen had to pull the whip on the mighty mare,
who responded and won by over a length.
Picture: Wayne Ludbey Read More


Richmond produced the biggest upset of the NAB Cup so far,
defeating Hawthorn after a spirited late surge.
The Tigers, Roos and Hawks all shared the spoils,
however, as footy finally got underway.
Picture: Getty Images Read More


Melbourne Heart has broken an eight-match winless drought
and kept its finals hopes alive with an ugly 1-0 win over a
crisis-hit Gold Coast United.
Picture:Getty Images
Read More

Well they are, in order, the current Lead IMAGE News & Sports stories,
and here is the current LEADING NEWS Report:


Rudd outburst caught on tape


9:11PM

Samantha Maiden

WATCH NOW:
KEVIN Rudd has sent Twitter abuzz
after being caught on video in an expletive laden outburst.

56...68 comments on this story

Europe's last monarchies (11 of 11)

SOLOMAN/SALMON & variant spellings
of those words/names

Racing into History...

"tintin" & Co. no doubt remember
that years ago I warned to watch for -
SOLOMON/SALMON &
variant spellings of those words/names...

BLACK CAVIAR...
many wearing her
distinctive salmon
and black colours...

Children were given masque-style eye covers
in her salmon pink and black colours.

''Black Caviar, Made in Victoria''
adorned a stand, while ...


Cheer Squadding Again –
Black Caviar clocks up
her 18th win in succession



true lilly wrote:
Tomorrow will be the 70th anniversary
of
the first Japanese air raid on Darwin.

The bombing, which killed
an estimated 300 people,

shocked the nation in its ferocity.

Picture: Getty Images
Read More


Crew wait for a Greek air force helicopter
to pluck them from their sinking super yacht
which suffered mechanical failure
during a wild storm in the Aegean.


Picture: AFP
Read More
true lilly wrote:Japanese emperor to have heart surgery

JAPANESE Emperor Akihito has gone into hospital
accompanied by Empress Michiko
ahead of a planned bypass operation.

Read more

Laurie Oakes is political editor for the Nine Network.
23 comments on this story
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/slapstick-and-farce-on-the-hill/story-fn56baaq-1226274270452

btw, I was a Breeder of Champions,

BECAUSE, FIRST, I KNEW I WAS BLESSED...

with 'un-papered' CHAMPIONS,
that taught me it IS
THE SPIRIT of INDIVIDUALS
that Separates (="Makes Holy"),
one BLOOD 'Brother' from another.


"The God Thing" - it's a,
One on One Relationship
, that
INDIVIDUALS ARE INDIVIDUALLY
CALLED TO, BY THE CREATOR of LIFE.

Watching, Warning, Calling, Correcting...
Sifting, Sorting...


Healing, Blessing...

Eze 34:16
I will seek 1245 that which was lost 6,
and bring again 7725 that which was driven away 5080,
and will bind up 2280 [that which was] broken 7665,
and will strengthen 2388 that which was sick 2470:

but I will destroy 8045 the fat 8082 and the strong 2389;
I will feed 7462 them with judgment 4941.


Try to remember this,
as 'you' send more child thugs
to threaten me,
to smash my fences,
invade my home,
gang bash me into hospital,
rob me,
destroy and steal my property,
set off car bombs...


God knows:

The "trouble, with a capital 'T'",
COMES DIRECTLY FROM,
The Dangers, with a capital 'D'
!

...and,
in 'The Mean Time',

Oi. Oi, Oi; ownoiz;
et al FAKE/TRAITOROUS DIF 'Australians',
keep outing 'your' fellow TRAITOROUS 'australian'
peddlers of
ICKEST TYPE=DEATH CRAVING RELIGIONS.


Salmon & Black BC 91 19 19 Gloaming Desert Gold


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/superracing/all-too-hard-romps-to-impressive-win-at-flemington/story-fn67siys-1226274513655#

The messages of support read:

“Black Caviar made in Victoria,”
“Black Caviar – London calling,”
and
“Black Caviar…Australia today…
tomorrow the world”.

http://www.backpagelead.com.au/horse-racing/5676-captivated-by-black-caviar

Black Caviar wooed the world over

Black Caviar strikes twice in Lightning

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-18/black-caviar-strikes-twice-in-lightning/3837972

Yes, in THE SPORT of KINGS,
we've waited many years,
91. 19 wins from 19 starts...

...catch up with
The REAL NEWS BEHIND The News...
read the links...

true lilly

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  Billy Ruben on Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:02 am

true lilly wrote:

"tintin" & Co. no doubt remember
that years ago I warned to watch for -
SOLOMON/SALMON &
variant spellings of those words/names...


The only thing Tintin remembers with any fondness is your banning from David Icke Forums.Although you continue to natter from a widely unread and uncared for ghost-town of a forum and the only one paying attention is the most hated,despised and unwanted poster...and that's me.Does'nt it make you want to quit ???

Oh,leave Ownoiz alone.He's a true patriotic Australian concerned with issues that actually help the country,like water management for instance.You...are a true traitor,inciting racial hatred and intolerance for same sex relationships.We all should unite under a rainbow flag,with gay green senators passing rule for the people...Bottoms Up as they say.


sissies catfight


Billy Ruben

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:15 am


true lilly

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Sat Feb 18, 2012 6:19 am

true lilly wrote:
true lilly wrote:As this following image was put together by the like of
"Ciggy" the mega-bs-artists who's well paid careers
are to shove this sort of bs down the world's throat

via the GLOBAL ANTIsocial Twittering Media,
it would be wrong to leave 'that name', "Ciggy" out of this,
"UP YOURS":

K-Federino wrote:
barnacle bill wrote:
el kabong wrote:


Column -
Open your eyes. Where’s that warming?

223 Comments | Permalink
Andrew Bolt Blog
Andrew Bolt
Wednesday, February 01, 2012 at 07:14am

IT’S a bright new year, so let’s see how the great global warming scare is panning out, shall we?

First, the planet hasn’t actually warmed for a decade—or even 15 years,
according to new temperature data from Britain’s Met Office.

Hmm. That’s not what global warming scientists predicted.


Or look out of your window.

The rain that Climate Commissioner Tim Flannery said in 2007 “isn’t
actually going to fill our dams and river systems” any more has just
flooded New South Wales and Queensland again.


The Bureau of Meteorology,which three years ago warned “we are just not
going to have that sort of good rain again”, now admits last year was
our third-wettest on record.

The snowfalls that the University of East Anglia in 2000 said would soon
become “a very rare and exciting event”
are falling as hard as ever.

The monster hurricanes we were told to expect by Nobel Prize winner Al Gore are coming no more often.

The massive coral bleaching of the Great Barrier Reef, that warmist
Prof Ove Hoegh-Guldberg
predicted would occur every second year from 2010,
hasn’t hit in years.

Wherever you look it’s the same wake-up-to-yourself story.

Sea levels have recently dipped, the oceans have lately cooled, Arctic
ice has not retreated since 2007, polar bear numbers are increasing,
global crop yields keep rising and now some solar scientists warn not of
warming, but cooling.

So how do the warming activists respond to increasing evidence
contradicting their theory that our carbon dioxide emissions are heating
the world dangerously?

Simple. They close their eyes.

Take Prof Naomi Oreskes, the author of Merchants of Doubt who famously tried to prove that not one scientific paper dissented from the global warming “consensus”.


Last week she complained people still “cling to the idea that it is
reasonable to maintain an open mind”, and insisted: “It isn’t.”


To have an academic demand a closed mind on global warming is a shock.
It shows she’s talking not about science but a faith.


Yet her view is depressingly echoed by much of the media, which for
years has whipped up the warming scare, refusing to report on scientists
who queried it, and demonising the open-minded as “deniers”.

They, too, believe a closed mind—and closed ears—is how to deal with inconvenient truths I’ve listed.


Example?

I once mentioned on the ABC TV’s Insiders that the warming had paused, only to be heckled by one panellist while the other, The Sydney Morning Herald’s David Marr, theatrically buried his head in a newspaper.

Not listening, la la la la la.

What has made the deliberate know-nothingness of such journalists so
damaging is that in no other country has the media spruiked the warming
creed so hysterically.

Warmist researchers from the Centre for Science and Technology Policy
Research at the University of Colorado in Boulder have counted how often
50 papers around the world mentioned “global warming” or “climate
change” and found that in every year from 2006 to 2011 our own beat the
rest.

But see how some of the most obsessed outlets—especially The Age and
ABC—resist reporting evidence that the late 20th century warming blamed
on man’s gases has halted, and few of the catastrophic consequences
predicted have happened.


Man’s gases do affect the climate is some small way, but not necessarily
for the worst and certainly not by as much as natural influences—some
of which may have us heading for cooling.

Henrik Svensmark, director of the Centre for Sun-Climate Research at
Denmark’s National Space Institute, investigates the effects of the sun
and cosmic rays on our climate, and last week said a recent cut in the
sun’s output could soon reverse any man-made warming: “World
temperatures may end up a lot cooler than now for 50 years or more.”

Who knows if he’s right? Best keep an open mind on this and on man-made warming.

Or, as Harvard University physicist Mike Stopa warned last week: “It is
possible that CO2 has effectively no influence on global climate.”

And he asked: “Suppose it turns out that CO2 has essentially nothing to do with the Earth’s climate.


“How will the history of this colossal mistake be written?”


The great jellyfish scare goes bung, too
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/the_great_jellyfish_scare_goes_bung_too/

“The ETS is bust, it’s dead”
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/the_ets_is_bust_its_dead/


“How will the history of this colossal mistake be written?”
________________________________________

"will"? our 'Future History' IS WRITTEN,
including the warnings of what we will suffer
for denying and ignoring it.

www.blueletterbible.org
Re: How America made its children crazy


silent
OBERON...and how 'they' FORCE The GREENIE Agenda

Suspect pig
true lilly wrote:Funny, I post this (below),
go to David Icke Official Forums,
and there's "tintin's Thread",
"The NEWS Behind The NEWS,
near the top of the 1st page of "Today's News",
with last post by "dixie d",
and I go to that last page, scroll down and
and it's ALL "tintin's" posts for the last two pages.

So I go back to the last page, still "tintin".
Go back to "Today's News", and "tintin's'
"The NEWS Behind The News" is NOT there,
or the next page, but way down on the 3rd.


"This Post should be cut and pasted on every blog ...EXCELLENT"

Read ALL 3 Pages of the comments:
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/kiddie_porn_horror/P0/

Les replied to Rock spider
Thu 09 Feb 12 (08:17am)
Abraham (aka Rock Spider) said:
“However what moral absolute, in a society without absolutes,
prohibits rationalising relationships with children?”


ANSWER: A shotgun.



“There are no moral absolutes so I’m doing what’s right by me.”


ANSWER: Me too. Look to the answer above.



“Every person reading this and other blogs will know
there are no moral absolutes in Australia....
Thus is the argument with which many
paedophiles rationalise their depravity.

Accusing them of depravity
will elicit a response of “Depraved for whom?
Morality is relative remember.”

ANSWER: No, it is not. A standard load of double-aught removes the relativity.


As a side note: whether you are Abraham, or Rock Spider -
you have selected the wrong subject to intellectualize.
I think I understand what you are trying to say -
but I am not going to discuss the subject.
The only discussion I am ever going to have
with
someone who tries to rationalize paedophilia
or with a paedophile
is in the manner already discussed above.

Laura replied to Rock spider
Thu 09 Feb 12 (02:40pm)
Formerly A Political,
Rock Spider has
written
a slippery piece on moral relativism.

Paedophiles
have a way of writing in code.

They have a way of lumping certain things together
and telling you they’re on your side
as they jumble around with terms
and ask too cute by half questions like;
‘am I being intolerant and judgemental?’

Before you know it, you end up accepting that sixties flower children

belong in the same theoretical category as ‘sexual relationships with children’.

Paedophiles work subtly and sublimely.


They know how to groom children and they appear to know how to groom bloggers.

Do I know absolutely that Rock Spider is a paedophile? Of course not!

But I do recognise something in his writing
because I have read it before

and it’s been written by child rapists
who call themselves ‘boy lovers’.


Read ALL 3 Pages of the comments:
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/kiddie_porn_horror/P0/

Re: How America made its children crazy


silent
OBERON...and how 'they' FORCE The GREENIE Agenda

Suspect pig

truth of sydney (Reply)
Thu 09 Feb 12 (04:07pm)
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/kiddie_porn_horror/P40/

Most recent Heiner Affair articles:

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/goss/
true lilly wrote:I won’t peddle the theories, if they don’t peddle the conspiracies
Andrew Bolt – Saturday, February 11, 12 (11:22 am)


Look, if global warmists don’t want sceptics to peddle conspiracy
theories about a “one world government”, it would help a lot if
they didn’t have something like it on the drawing board:

<blockquote>At a closed-door retreat in a Long Island mansion
late last October, United Nations Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and his
topmost aides brainstormed about how the global organization could benefit from a “unique opportunity” to reshape the world, starting with the Rio + 20 Summit on Sustainable Development, which takes place in Brazil in June.

A copy of the confidential minutes of the meeting was
obtained by Fox News. According to that document, the 29-member group,
known as the United Nations System Chief Executives Board for
Coordination (CEB), discussed bold ambitions that stretch for years
beyond the Rio conclave to consolidate a radical new global green
economy, promote a spectrum of sweeping new social policies and build an
even more important role for U.N. institutions “ to manage the process
of globalization better."…

Its members see Rio as the springboard for consolidation of an expanding
U.N. agenda for years ahead, driven by still more U.N.-sponsored global
summits that would, as one participant put it, “ensure that the U.N.
connected with the roots of the current level of global discontent.”

Among other things, the CEB heard Ban’s top organizer, a U.N. Under
Secretary General from China named Sha Zukang, declare that the wish
list for the Rio + 20 meeting, already being touted as a landmark
environmental conclave on the issue of “global environmental
governance,” included making it:
<blockquote> “the catalyst” for solidifying a global economic, social and political agenda, built around “green economy” goals

a means to “reorient public and private decision-making” to make the
world’s poorest people the new economy’s “main beneficiaries,”

a method of also reorienting national decision-making in countries
around the world to put the new agenda “at the heart of national
ministries,”

the occasion to create new bodies, like a U.N. Sustainable
Development Council, similar to the U.N. Human Rights Council, to help
guide the global process further in the years ahead, or give additional
responsibilities to the U.N. Environmental Program (UNEP), the world
body’s chief environmental agency.</blockquote>

Other participants chimed in with additional ideas, including the notion
from one key organizer that “the U.N. in Rio should be the voice of the
planet and its people.”

</blockquote>UPDATE

One World Government? Greens leader Bob Brown would approve:


(Thanks to readers. DERFred, bulmkt and Kathleen.)

42 comments | Permalink

Re: How America made its children crazy


silent
OBERON...and how 'they' FORCE The GREENIE Agenda

Suspect pig

truth of sydney (Reply)
Thu 09 Feb 12 (04:07pm)
http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/kiddie_porn_horror/P40/

Most recent Heiner Affair articles:

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/goss/
true lilly wrote:http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/piersakerman/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/kiddie_porn_horror/P20/
The Pixie Ear-Wax Rudd has announced the appointment of Qld Governor Quentin

Bryce as the next Governor General to replace Jefferies.

Bryce is supposedly a reformed alcoholic and
former President of The Qld Abuised Child Trust.


When presented with the Lindeberg Petition in relation to the Heiner Affair,
Bryce is known to said “it (The Heiner Affair) represents a boil which
cannot be lanced”.

A copy of the Lindeberg Petition can be obtained from the internet and has
been tabled in the Australian Senate and House of Representatives.

The petition included details of the destruction of the Heiner Documents
including details of the pack rape of “Annette”.

This is far worse than the situation involving the Howard government’s
appointment of Archbishop Hollingsworth.

Hollingsworth at no time was facing the prospect of being charged with a
criminal offence. Bryce on the other hand is facing the prospect of criminal
charges. This matter is currently before the Qld PCMC and by an unamious
decision the committee is believed to have requested a further submission
from Mr Lindeberg’s lawyers in relating to a solution to the grave impasse.

It should be noted that when a House of representatives Committee, chaired
by Bronwyn Bishop, looked at the Heiner Affair, including The Lindeberg
Grievance, it recommended the establishment of a Commission of Inquiry
(Royal Commission) and the appointment of a Special Prosecutor to process
the criminal charges.

Mrs Bryce is believed to be one of the sixty five individuals mentioned in
the Rofe Audit. This report was prepared by David Rofe QC a leading Sydney
barrister for Kevin Lindeberg. Mr Rudd is also one of the sixty five
individuals in the audit.

THE PROPOSED APPOINTMENT OF QUENTIN BRYCE TO THE POSITION OF GOVERNOR
GENERAL SHOULD BE SEEN AS AN ATTEMPT BY KEVIN THE PIXIE EAR-WAX RUDD TO
STAVE OFF THE POSSIBILITY OF HIM BEING SACKED AS PRIME MINISTER AFTER HIS
CRIMINALITY IN THE HEINER AFFAIR HAS BEEN EXPOSED

Finally the Liberals will have to bite the bullet and find their balls over
THe Heiner Affair.

tombrown (Reply)
Wed 08 Feb 12 (04:47pm)

Heiner Watcher replied to tombrown
Wed 08 Feb 12 (06:39pm)

All your own work, I see.

Link.

tombrown replied to tombrown
Wed 08 Feb 12 (10:05pm)

No, I cant post links for peanuts,but I sure can cut and paste.Never pretended otherwise.

true lilly

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Sat Feb 18, 2012 7:56 am

New rush of Greek migrants arrive

Hamish Heard
MELBOURNE is set for a new wave of Greek migrants
as the nation's dismal economy drives away workers in search of jobs.

true lilly

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:01 am


true lilly

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:03 am


Black Caviar makes it 19 wins


NINETY one years after the mark was set,
Black Caviar joined Desert Gold and Gloaming
as the record Australasian record holder for
consecutive wins.




Last edited by true lilly on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total

true lilly

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  Billy Ruben on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:06 am

Yawn...it's not your thread madam.

Tiswas,I asked you to lock this thread and delete it.It will burn her core,please do...

Billy Ruben

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  Billy Ruben on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:08 am

Billy Ruben wrote:Yawn...it's not your thread madam.

Tiswas,I asked you to lock this thread and delete it.It will burn her core,please do...


Like when her Lying Conspiracy Thread got ranted.It was hilarious,it was full of lies and slander anyway.

Billy Ruben

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  true lilly on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:15 am



true lilly

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  Billy Ruben on Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:22 am

true lilly wrote:


Of course Kevvys mad,he realises the Christmas bonus he gave you,was spent on a computer that you use to convey many unkind words about him.A belated thankyou would'nt go astray.


Billy Ruben

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Re: SHUT THE HELL UP ABOUT AUSTRALIA!!!

Post  Sponsored content Today at 7:10 am


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