Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

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and now for some real world, real time, REVEALATIONS ...

Post  true lilly on Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:41 pm

MAKING and PROVING a case,
FROM BOTH SIDES, is NOT "spamming".

...that's what all 'your' cats, porn and
'you must believe only the torah' BS, IS!
Rolling Eyes
true lilly wrote:Always happens when 'THEY' SHOW THEIR HAND TOO EARLY
... Little Emergency, 'HOW THE flippin' heck DO WE FIX THIS!',
'DIScusions' have to be had. Tintin was too quick to PUBLICLY POST that
his thread "IS GOD'S/GODS' WORD", The NEW WORLD BIBLE...and so, IT IS,
The NEW SPANISH CATHOLIC INQUISITION for All who Don't Bow to HIS god of
rodin wrote:Brevik has had a job done on his nose. This stinks of the Loughner guy who had a sikut in his back yard
Anyone here think Giffords was really shot in the head? I have a bridge to sell you currently safe from burning London
Rolling Eyes
THE First WAR:
The Creator Father's children TURNED ON HIM.


ISAAC & ISHMAEL, JACOB & ESAU, and so on and on;

Hence the UN-believable
CRAP 'work' 'of' 'DAN BROWN'
(yep, that means 'you' to 'rodin'),
DEATH WORSHIPERS, in 'their' last ditch,
to try to deceive, even, The Very Elect,
with all that "bloodline" BULLSHIT!

And part of why this Genuine Expert,
Breeder of Champions, is so heavily
attacked and silenced by 'them'...
(with what I produced),
those Genuine World Record Champions.

true lilly wrote:MAKING and PROVING a case,
FROM BOTH SIDES, is NOT "spamming".

...that's what all 'your' cats, porn and
'you must believe only the torah' BS, IS!
Rolling Eyes
true lilly wrote:
true lilly wrote:At least 4 confirmed dead now, and another fighting for life...
...and it's the ICKESTS who have preached up this MURDEROUS
MENTALity ...teaching kids to hate the wealthy...while the ICKESTS,
such as 'star poster' "tintin" are swimming in dosh, flying around the world,
enjoying their 5 star lifestyles...telling you to hate and envy those who
actually work for a living...so what, I warned of this and worse years ago...
didn't listen then, won't now...
Birmingham riots:
three men killed 'protecting homes'

A murder investigation has been launched
after three people were killed
“doing the job of the police” during widespread rioting.
true lilly wrote:
Sod-Haus...!!! wrote: She Wants Crisps... From Poundland...!!!

Clearly Not The Brains Of The Operation..!!!
That's it, keep ducking and weaving, "THE" Questions
that people NEED TO UNDERSTAND "THE" Answer to...
...at least all the frantic movement may catch the attention
of someone smart enough to realize that;
no one ducks and weaves THAT MUCH for no purpose.

Hey, not my fault people chose to ignore my warning posts
of the actual meaning behind
that followed...
...too busy spamming porn and other evils in my warning threads.


So, anyone else bother to figure out WHY
that MEGA FAN of FOOTBALL(SOCCER), "tintin"
who posted endless pages of the
SECRET CODE SPEAK of that 'game', has


England match cancelled after riots

Rob Woollard
ENGLAND'S soccer friendly
against the

Netherlands was cancelled
after a third day of rioting in London,
officials confirmed.

England match cancelled after London riots
Rob Woollard
From:Herald Sun
August 09, 2011 8:51PM

Rooney said: "These riots are nuts. why would people do this to their
own country. Own city. This is embarrassing for our country. Stop
Picture: AP

ENGLAND'S soccer friendly against the Netherlands was cancelled after a third day of rioting in London, officials confirmed.

A one-line statement from the Football Association confirmed the
which followed a meeting between FA officials and police early on
Tuesday concerning security arrangements
for Wednesday's match at

"It is with regret that tomorrow's international fixture
with Holland at Wembley (Wednesday 10 August) has been called-off,"
FA statement said, adding that more details would follow later.

The unprecedented decision followed the earlier postponement of League Cup
matches involving West Ham, Charlton and Crystal Palace after police

England's players were to take part in a training session on Tuesday before returning to their clubs, reports said.

Related Coverage

Friendly: Welsh star no nightmare for Wilkshire
Argentine prodigy: Leo, 7, takes Madrid by storm
A new generation of anarchy rules The Daily Telegraph, 18 minutes ago
10,000 police on streets as Britain burns The Australian, 18 minutes ago
PM vows to end 'sickening' riots Herald Sun, 18 minutes ago
Live - London smoulders after riots Herald Sun, 22 minutes ago
Man dies amid London riot chaos The Daily Telegraph, 58 minutes ago

England star Rio Ferdinand responded to the announcement on micro-blogging site Twitter.

"England vs Holland game is off, good call. Who wants to see a game of football
when our country is in turmoil," Ferdinand wrote.

"The solution to this is not to just clean up the glass, it's to stop the glass
breaking in the first place," Ferdinand added in a separate post.

The Manchester United defender had earlier called for an end to the violence which has raged across Britain.

"The scenes on Sky news right now are shocking...what is this all in aid of??
Innocent peoples homes and livelihoods have gone up in smoke-why?"

Ferdinand said.

"It seems these kids/people have no fear or respect for the police....maybe the army will get that respect??

"And I am not saying bring violence, I am saying the presence of the army
may make these kids/people think twice about continuing this??"

Teammate Wayne Rooney added: "These riots are nuts why would people do this to
there (sic) own country. Own city. This is embarrassing for our country.
Stop please."

British Olympic officials, meanwhile, expressed confidence that London would be
able to host a trouble-free Summer Games next year despite the violence.

"We know the level of work and we know the level of planning that has gone into it,"
British Olympic Association director of communications Darryl Seibel told Sky Sports

"This is not a reflection of London. This is a reflection of the world we live in today."

Police in Birmingham said violence which erupted in the city on Monday would
not impact on the third Test between England and India, due to get under
way at Edgbaston on Wednesday.

England star Kevin Pietersen described the violence in the city as "insane",
revealing that the team's city centre hotel doors had been locked as unrest flared
throughout Birmingham.

"They have just locked our hotel in Birmingham mate... Riots just started here.. Insane!!" Pietersen said in a Twitter message.

England bowler Tim Bresnan added: "Just seen the rioters in Birmingham fleeing
down the main street followed by a load of police in the full get up.
What's going on?"

Spinner Graeme Swann chimed in a message late on Monday:
"Goodnight England.
Good luck to those surrounded by the carnage. Be safe."
My original thread that 'they' spammed to death then
chopped up into many, with 'their' spam filling the lead pages,
and giving the often proven BS excuse that pages can't go
past 68 pages, is now, WAY PAST "68" pages, but still going so 'team them'
can keep spamming it with 'their' murderous propaganda,
and so also PROVING 'them' MONSTROUS LIARS

...so here's a bit more of what 'they' MUST KEEP BURIED and

And just to further make my case...
(something 'you mob' do so well for me here)
while some still have time to GET IT!

true lilly wrote:Long ago, I asked folk to ask themselves
(so they too, may see the truth of God's Word),
and I was banned for continuing to show, where, AND WHY.

See, unlike "tintin" and his ilk, I have nothing to do with
High Finance or picking and choosing figure heads, but,
I do care to study God's Word, and pay a little attention
to what is really going on, in this real world we occupy, as
God Advised Us, For Our Real Lives Sake.

[size=24]Nick Greiner appointed chairman of advisers
at Rothschild Australia

Rothschild Australia
(and 'you' simply won't allow,
THAT Headline, to show up big and bold.
Why, it's all in the public media,
freely available to anyone who can

pull their heads out of Team Tintin's arse
for two seconds Rolling Eyes )

Michael Bennet
From: The Australian
August 01, 2011 1:18PM

Nick Greiner, a former NSW Premier, is a top adviser at Rothschild.
Source: The Daily Telegraph

ROTHSCHILD has appointed former New South Wales Liberal Premier Nick
Greiner as chairman of its council of advisers at its Australian
business and a senior adviser globally.

The investment bank today said Mr Greiner, who was Premier and
Treasurer of NSW from 1988 to1992, would take up the roles effective

Trevor Rowe, the executive chairman of Rothschild
Australia, said Mr Greiner’s public service and corporate board
experience would be of great value in providing insights to its clients.

Mr Greiner chairs a range of businesses and bodies, including Bradken,
Citigroup Australia and Infrastructure NSW. He is also deputy chairman
of CHAMP Private Equity.

Rothschild Australia recently advised SunRice on the failed takeover of
the group by Ebro Foods, Asahi on its bid for the whole of P&N Beverages,
which was blocked by the competition regulator, and the Queensland government
on its successful float of QR National.

Related Coverage

Spotlight on Rothschild's energy money The Australian, 10 Jun 2011
Slowdown puts brakes on rates The Australian, 31 May 2011
'Greiner role offered to Max the Axe' The Daily Telegraph, 6 May 2011
ALP scared off investors, says Greiner The Australian, 2 May 2011
Super could fund infrastructure The Australian, 2 May 2011

Asahi to pay $1.2b for Independent Liquor
Staff writer
From: AFP
August 08, 2011 12:00AM

JAPANESE beverage giant Asahi Group
reportedly has trumped rival Suntory
in the race to buy Independent Liquor.

Asahi will pay about $1.21 billion to buy the company, which is
headquartered in New Zealand, from private equity companies Pacific
Equity Partners and Unitas as it moves to expand in Asia and Oceania.

Asahi has been touted as a potential rival bidder for Melbourne-based
Foster's Group, which is the target of an informal $9.5 billion takeover
offer from Anglo-African beverage giant SABMiller. Asahi will announce
its biggest acquisition soon, Nikkei newspaper reported yesterday.

Japanese firms have sought to expand in foreign markets as domestic sales suffer
from slow consumption by the country's shrinking and ageing population.

Asahi already has a foothold in the Australian soft drinks market through its
Schweppes brand and last month agreed to buy P&N Beverages Australia.

Related Coverage
SABMiller waits on Foster's The Australian, 6 days ago
Greiner top Rothschild adviser The Australian, 7 days ago
Business as usual at Renmark plant Adelaide Now, 6 Jul 2011
Multi-million-dollar All Black FoxSports, 6 Jul 2011
World tucks into Aussie agriculture Herald Sun, 5 Jul 2011

Aussie stock market lifts after dive

Stephen McMahon and AAP

UPDATE 12.39pm:
THE Australian share market recovered
some of its early losses today as
investors regained some nerve.

China still our rock, say economists

HA! I was only going to post the headline
and introduction, but it GOT DELETED HERE
so I had to get the whole story. Rolling Eyes

Australians safe in China's hands amid tumble
Neil Wilson
From: Herald Sun
August 08, 2011 12:00AM

Rio Tinto chief executive Tom Albanese.

CHINA'S voracious appetite for Australian resources
is likely to continue despite the latest bout of
global economic volatility,
economists and business leaders say.

Rio Tinto chief Tom Albanese said yesterday while the debt crisis
engulfing major western economies had implications for the entire world,
China's economy would continue to grow rapidly.

And RMIT economics professor On Kit Tam said China's foreign investment program
meant there would be little impact on the Asian giant's demand for resources.

"I don't think this decline in the US rating
will have any immediate effect via China on to Australia," Prof Tam said.

"China is shielded by its foreign investment and capital controls."

China's news agency Xinhua said yesterday unless the US cut its
"gigantic military expenditure and bloated welfare costs", another ratings
downgrade would be inevitable.

Related Coverage
Roubini bullish on China The Australian, 20 Jul 2011
China slowdown a global risk The Australian, 18 Jul 2011
Forecasts put us at China's mercy The Australian, 11 May 2011
Consequences of China's boom start to get complicated The Australian, 1 Apr 2011
Hale warns as China is set to slide Adelaide Now, 28 Mar 2011

But Prof Tam said China had little option but to retain its $1.2 trillion holding
of US bonds as debt-ridden Europe did not provide a reliable alternative investment.

China is now buying a quarter of Australia's exports, while the US takes just 4 per cent.

Prof Tam said despite China's efforts to rein in its high inflation rate,
which clocked in at 6.4 per cent annualised in June, the economy would
still growth about 9 per cent this year.

Mr Albanese said based on his travels through China and knowledge of the economy,
he was convinced growth would not slip below 8 per cent next year.

He told the ABC's Inside Business program yesterday
the engine room of the Chinese economy was changing.

"It's shifting a bit from commercial and higher-end residential (property
construction) to probably what would be a more middle-class residential,
which we would see as a healthy sign," Mr Albanese said.

"What I see (is) that growth continues."
(lost count, is this the 5th or 6th time I've had to re-format this post?
Talk about petty, childish twerps, who think wasting someone's time,
somehow doesn't show them to be the born losers they are
Rolling Eyes)
No, this is NOT off topic. It is The Topic, that The CONspiracy Industry
has banned me all over the World Wide Web of DECEIVING Forums,
caring to freely share. I WARNED OF THIS, YEARS AGO,
and SHOWED and EXPLAINED how I came to know; simply by,

If you can play on the fiddle
How's about a British jig and reel?
Speaking King's English in quotation
As railhead towns feel the steel mills rust water froze
In the generation
Clear as winter ice
This is your paradise

There ain't no need for ya
Go straight to hell boys

Y'wanna join in a chorus
Of the Amerasian blues?
When it's Christmas out in Ho Chi Minh City
Kiddie say papa papa papa papa-san take me home
See me got photo photo
Photograph of you
Mamma Mamma Mamma-san
Of you and Mamma Mamma Mamma-san
Lemme tell ya 'bout your blood bamboo kid.
It ain't Coca-Cola it's rice.

Straight to hell
Oh Papa-san
Please take me home
Oh Papa-san
Everybody they wanna go home
So Mamma-san says

You wanna play mind-crazed banjo
On the druggy-drag ragtime U.S.A.?
In Parkland International
Hah! Junkiedom U.S.A.
Where procaine proves the purest rock man groove
and rat poison
The volatile Molatov says-


Go straight to hell

Can you really cough it up loud and strong
The immigrants
They wanna sing all night long
It could be anywhere
Most likely could be any frontier
Any hemisphere
No man's land and there ain't no asylum here
King Solomon he never lived round here

Go straight to hell boys

Oh and yes,
God also told us He would give us watchmen,
to witness and warn, those with hearing ears

Rolling Eyes ...HYPOCRITE ALERT!...
Billy Ruben wrote:Did you have to spam
True Lilly,can't you just talk,what would happen if we were lovers,are
you going to spam text dirty talk to me while we f*ck...can't you just say,"F*ck me in the shitter you goy bastard"...
Billy Ruben wrote:LOLZ

...Now WHEN will 'you' 'Billy' et al,
PRETENDING to be on opposing sides,
EVER ATTACK 'each other', as 'you' ALL DO me,
CONspiracy Forums of
The World Wide WEB of DECEPTION

true lilly wrote:I see you can't stop talking about yourself...
Parasites POISON, WEAKEN and KILL THOSE THEY 'live' OFF...
'your' Team 'mates' here:
rodin wrote:
el kabong wrote:
rodin wrote:Well that's a
relief, DIF is back up. I feared the worst since the FORUM direct button
on the main page redirected to it. I have books worth of research on
that site...

oops spoke too soon.
not to worry rodent, DIFtardia is a haven for NAZIs such as yourself. It was a mere Technical glitch and we have it sorted.
NAZI is product placement
gotta keep pushing that tired old bit of string...
meanwhile in the free speech zone

"... in the free speech zone"
...ahh, another time, ya gotta laugh...
...and this, is funny...

"It was a mere Technical glitch and we have it sorted."

Not, 'maintenance' this time, an actual 'glitch', and 'sorted'...
...now why is it I hear, "POLITICS 101"...

Well at least 'el kabong'=the obsessive attacker of,
"The, Icke=tintin, 'Thorn'" Wink , with

admits a little of why he must do the,
"free speech zone" version of,
NAZI/tintin's silencing of 'The Thorn', here,
which along with, chatting so politely, with
'blame everything on the jews', 'rodin'
and NOT SPAMMING 'HIS' Wink thread with pages of ,

clearly makes a Key Point of the case I present, for me.

BTW, at least I gave folk clear warning, years ago
of the very shit happening in England, now,

such as explaining why people were being encouraged
to kill themselves trying to squeeze into already
way over populated northern cities like London...

while 'you mob' screamed, "DON'T LISTEN TO HER!"

Gee, I wonder how many English Londoners
HATE YOU MOB now, that they realize I gave them
enough warning time to legally migrate to O'Zion,
while the "Ciggy's, Wonder Woman's, ownoiz's etc."
of WEB/NET CON Forum land, cruelly 'advised' folk
to move to every dangerous, bankrupt, unstable,
hot spot in the world, except O'Zion
...While working
FOR The Nazi/Dutch/'KING of The NORTH' who still

Oh sure, we will have our needed, bothersome corrections, to,
but we are also doing good things, like setting up a Universal
Disability Insurance Scheme (the 'SNOWY RIVER SCHEME' of
PUBLIC HEALTH, Bigger than the NBN),
an awful lot like what
I hammered for years ago, when working in that field.

Remember, it's all the twittering (ANTI)'social' NET 'workers'
who have been suckered into MURDERING INNOCENT DEFENDERS
of), England's 'Riots'(=UN'civil' WARS).

And it is the INSANE ICKEST RELIGION PUSHERS who have made me,
...who 'somehow'=BY THE GRACE of GOD, is still kicking.
Very Happy

And no 'Billy', remember, I don't 'make connections', but know,
what I know, through my faith in The Creator and His Promise
of Revealing to His faithful, what they need to know, when they
need to know it. Which is why 'you mob' must invent so many
slanderous tales about who I am, lest others Hear and Receive
The Message of God's Saving Grace,
that I am simply a real,
live human individual, example of being blessed by, through
not denying, and publicly sharing, That, Very Best News, Ever.

The Truth, does indeed, set you free,
and The Truth Is With The One Who Can't Lie,
The Creator of Life,
Who Described The Whole World, All The Earth
and All Peoples, From The Beginning.
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

...and as GOD is the only truly effective Ridder of Parasites,
I trust Him to His work.
Wink Smile Razz

Last edited by true lilly on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
true lilly

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Age : 56

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  true lilly on Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:41 pm

Friday July 22,2011


Eurocrats are demanding
that Britain welcomes more immigrants

Cecilia Malmstrom says
and visa-free travel
are essential
to boost economic fortune


Thursday August 11,2011


Across England could cost retailers
an astonishing £392million,
new figures show

Chris Simpson of Kelkoo said:
UK retailers are sadly
going to feel the fallout

of this week’s riots
for several months.


...and I'll go 'he' if this bloke,
(who's, 'don't be yucky to dogs' story,
of David Icke...


Trainer gave his dog Viagra to win races

A CROOKED greyhound trainer who used drugs
to fix races has been banned from kee...
Read More

Have Your Say(0)

Student mugged by yobs who ‘helped’ him has op

AN injured student robbed by looters
as they pretended to come to his aid unde...
Read More

Have Your Say(0)
Don't think this related?

I know it is.

I Posted to WATCH for it, years ago.

Monday August 8,2011

Zara and Toytown go for gold at World
Equestrian Games in 2006

By Sarah Cox

THEY have shared more than a decade
of highs and lows in the world of showjumping.

But now Zara Phillips has bid farewell to Toytown.
After 12 years together, the chestnut gelding
described by Zara as “the horse of a lifetime”
formally ­retired in an ­emotional ceremony

She said: “I think it will be quite difficult. It’s the end of an era.
He was the horse of a lifetime for me. We grew up ­together.
Zara, 30, paraded her ­beloved horse around the arena
at ­Gatcombe’s Festival of British Eventing for the last time ­
yesterday afternoon.

The pair shared success when they were crowned World
Eventing champions five years ago and took home gold ­and
silver medals at the 2006 World Equestrian Games,
but they never made it to the Olympics despite several

A leg injury forced Toytown out of the running
for the 2004 Athens Olympics
and an injury during final preparations
for the 2008 Beijing Olympics forced
the pair to give up their place in the British team.

The royal newlywed has postponed her honeymoon
with husband Mike Tindall,
32, and is reportedly busy ­looking at “two or three”
­horses, one of which she hopes
will take to the ­podium

at the London ­Olympics in 2012.
She has said: “I have had my horse of a lifetime.
The horses I have had since then have been in a massive shadow.”

who was bought for Zara by her father Captain Mark Philips,
will now live at her motherPrincess Anne’s
at Gatcombe Park,

Zara coming to Australia
...the $11 billion empire
is finally making its way to Australia.

13 Apr 2011
15 Jul 2010
3 Sep 2007


Yeah, I know, it's a different "ZARA",
so what, it's a different "TOY TOWN",
but The News Behind The News
In Both News Stories,
calls out the same message, to hearing ears.
true lilly

Posts : 6205
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 56

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Post  true lilly on Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:51 am

For starters, the ONE thing 'they' change
is the first word,
from, Think! to Think!,

I've left that as 'ninny' posted but have highlighted
the lies and deceptions designed to

ninny wrote: 11-08-2011, 06:32 AM #30101



Charles Manson telephoning


notice he speaks of "The mark of the Beast"

Charles Manson replies to concerns about a “New World Order” (Letter - July, 2011)

Think! If a body (person) lies and was raised and taught to lie, and
lies to self and lives with others who can't be truthful, how can they
even know what knowing is or is not? How can they even understand the
words and/or thoughts made up by the words? They are play-acting movies
and TV game shows.(HOW? Through TRUSTING GOD'S WORD,

You use the words "World Order", and you have thoughts in your head that
came from someone else, that you don't even know what is or is not.
You can't even use your own brain because others ‘been doing your
and you haven't even been born in Truth. (I HAVE, why I DO KNOW THE NEXT BIT IS ALSO A BALD FACED LIE!)You were born 1000
and million-million light years old, but
are trapped in the body others
needed you to be, play, and carry the cross for – you don't even know
what stupid is.
('ninny', TEAM TINTIN, ICKEST'S OBVIOUSLY DON'T!) And it would take 10 lifetimes running backwards
through school to blink one eye.(MORE senseless dribble to KEEP YOU OFF BALANCE!)
There is only one. One world is like – all water is one water. Real
order is one. One is all, all and one is zero, nothing, and everything.
World is already in its order.(TRYING to SPIN THAT TO ENGLAND, NOW? HOW BLOODY STUPID!) What you're talking and thinking is
brainwash – ‘use your own head’ would mean being reborn
('he/they' MEANS YOU MUST DIE First!)and not picking
the same old thoughts back up.

Order is true in itself as it is. First is air. Air- without air
there is no life on earth as I know and live it.
(a DEAD Give Away, AND WHAT I'VE BEEN BANNED FOR POSTING THE TRUTH OF; air=oxygen=rust=DEATH=PRINCE of The AIR=DEATH, BUT 'they' IGNORE those millions of years ago when LIFE EXISTED ON EARTH, BEFORE OXYGEN FORMED and DEATH had NOT YET ENTERED THIS AGE of THIS SYSTEM of Things!)To destroy or distort
air is out of order
('they' MEAN SATAN IS SO WEAK HE NEEDS US TO DIE TRYING TO PROTECT HIM)governments, money churches, none of that means
anything. The people of the Earth world are so warped, distorted,
twisted, and filled with lies and fear, confusion, doubt, and cover-ups,
greed, so on and on - that they can't see it if you show them.

For over 100 years, people have been trying to show the commands that
Air Is First, and not to use gas in the World Wars I and II. But
people say; "How long before all the air on earth is gone, over, and
all life is over?"… “100 years”… and the same with the order of where
air comes from; trees, green things, water and its order.(still BEGGING WE DIE TO KEEP THE PRINCE of DEATH 'alive')

Money and fear, sex and other levels of the world orders of death speak
(LIE! But 'they' DO CONTROL WEB/NET Forums and SILENCE those who THREATEN 'their' WEAK lord death) And real and truth is covered-up, lost from the real by the
cover-ups of the unreal, and who gives a fucks rule. And the sellouts
win again and time goes on and on, dragging the real order up and down,
under and over, around in circles.

(SHIT! TINTIN'S VERY OWN, SO OFTEN REPEATED Excuse for why he doesn't have the balls to WALK AWAY from HIS DEMONIC LUSTS, and
PREACHES OUT OF BITTERNESS because he doesn't have the balls to FACE HIS MAKER ALONE, which HE WILL!)

A lot of people say they would die before they would do this or that,(more than 'say' I've proven it time and time again, and doesn't that just show what WEAK, BITTER FOOLS 'they' ARE, that 'they' have only managed to NEARLY KILL ME, so far...)
and they got ways they say they believe and want change. Then, when no
one's looking, they're sucking on it or doing and going where they told
and made someone do their will – that's not order, that's disorder = out
of order. And that kind of thought and behavior covers up the real
order of (more confusing, HYPNOTIC dribble to drive home, FIX 'their' Coded Order...) the ‘do or die’ Order. (ORDERING SENSELESS SLAUGHTERS)

You're in a room, a car is running, and oil is destroying your air.
Order says, "Turn the car off or give up the air". That's got nothing
to do with 'will you suck or not suck?' There are people who would go
to war and destroy their own world, children, and self before they would
or could be truthful with what's inside their own minds' order.

I worked and got you… (established –ed.)(his coded CREDIT TO HIS MASTERS that INVENTED his persona, gave him his orders and CONTINUE TO PREACH THROUGH HIM VIA HIS 'Industry') and…and just like Boston Irish
people, you were lying so you could make movies and dump it back on
someone else.

I forgot the rest of this.(see above, forgot his orders) It's without real reasons because there is no one left over from the last cross boss.


Charles Manson
Last edited by ninny; 11-08-2011 at 06:34 AM.

...now lets look at
"that" source...nothing much at all,
then click on
THE "home" 'they' WANT YOU DEVOTED TO!
CRUMBLING DYING Worldly System, because
are also CRUMBLING and DYING and CAN'T,
stand open and free to even the simplest scrutiny
true lilly

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  true lilly on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:23 am

...mmm...for some reason, the number (27)
keeps coming up, as a few have noticed...
...so 'doing a dixie d', I thought I'd look up
that page number of "tintin's" thread, from
way back before he realized, that converting
me, from the freedom of my faith in the Holy,
Living Father and His Holy, Living Word, was,
simply impossible....

true lilly wrote:25-10-2007, 11:08 AM #263
'they' have 'killed' the link...oh well, here's the page link:

...and how 'cute' now 'they've' removed all my format tools, here.

true lilly wrote:[b]25-10-2007, 11:08 AM #263

tintin wrote:
Originally Posted by tintin View Post

The biggest club in the world. And yesterday Javier Balboa
scored in the 90th minute.
that's the last minute.
His nick is ROCKY BALBOA.

BALBOA scored in the
last minute. His first goal ever.

What does that mean?
Rocky Balboa is Stallone is GEORGE BUSH.
they are born exactly the same day.

So BALBOA is scoring in the 90th minute.
The number 9 means COMPLETION.

The SATANISTS are finished with their preperations.
They are ready for WAR.

But for those that CAN HEAR and that CAN SEE.
SATAN runs this "material" world but it is GOD
that is in control.

Serve GOD and he will serve you.

And god let's us know once in a while.
Because the football player ROCKY BALBOA tells us
with his full name.

Javier ANGEL balboa OSA.
An angel from OZ.....
And this angel is born 13 may...

13 - 5 - 1861 -
Great Comet of 1861 discovered in Australia.

The Great Comet of 1861 formally designated C/1861 J1 and 1861 II,
was a comet that was visible to the naked eye for approximately 3 months.
It was categorized as a Great Comet, one of eight in the 19th century.

It was discovered by John Tebbutt
of Windsor, New South Wales, Australia,
on May 13, 1861,
with an apparent magnitude of +4,
a month before perihelion (June 11).

It was not visible in the northern hemisphere
until June 29,
but it arrived before word of the comet's discovery.

The comet of 1861 interacted with the Earth
in an almost unprecedented way.
For two days, when the comet was at its closest (0.1326 AU),
the Earth was actually within the comet's tail,
and streams of cometary material converging
towards the distant nucleus could be seen.
By day also the comet's gas and dust even obscured the Sun.

(not that it means anything to me,
except that it took until very recently,
for me to stumble across this;
odd BECAUSE I'm an AUSSIE who was born
EXACTLY 100 Years later,
and as a kid, I could have done with ANYTHING
better than mother's first word's at my birth,
"OH GOD why wasn't IT born DEAD!",
to associate with my Birthday)

...psst...ninny nongs....it's all already out there,
on public and secret record...trying to hide it now,
only further shows how weak and shit scared you are...
...talk about an 'own goal'...
...I'd laugh, but you disabled my smilies to...rolls eyes...pokes out tongue...giggles...

...but on a deadly serious note...why would anyone with a quarter of a brain,
seriously believe and trust, these back-stabbing idiots, to deliver them victory
in The War Against The Creator God...when even an unconnected nobody who
left school at 14, can and does, so easily through them?
What, are some of 'you' still forgetting to "listen to what I 'don't' say"?
What, 'your' over lord and master the prince of death, hasn't showed 'you' how?
Gee, 'you' lose again, with 'your' insane choice of 'god' that 'you' slave to death for.
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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  true lilly on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:50 am

true lilly wrote: 25-10-2007, 02:33 PM #283

Originally Posted by 2013

i kept repeating that grain of rice
sized tazmanian devil story to people yesterday ,maybe theres
something growing in that story as well , errol flynn captain blood !

Well it was a "NOT News", 'news' STORY,
FEATURED by the BBC, so YOU KNOW there HAS to be
"something in it",
and I think I'm getting close....

Flynn was a member of
Hollywood's Cricket Club,
along with David Niven.

Errol Flynn
Capt. Nelson
Operation Burma !

Objective, Burma! (1945)
The movie was pulled from release
and banned in Britain

after heated protest ...
What sets "Operation Burma" apart
is its concentration on the humanity
of ...

www.imdb.com/title/tt0037954/ - 43k

The Burma Campaign
was a campaign in
the South-East Asian
Theatre of
World War II.

It was fought primarily between
British Empire, Chinese and American forces
the forces of the Empire of Japan,

the Burmese Independence Army
and the Indian National Army.

British Empire forces (often simply referred to as "British")
were drawn from the United Kingdom, British India,
and other parts of the empire.

(... sorry, 'they' removed bits that DID ACTUALLY
DIRECTLY LINK, the above with...)

(...but, 'primarily'=they always left out The ANZAC'S,
since the 'Birth' of Modern Australia)

It was fought primarily between
British Empire, Chinese and American forces
the forces of the Empire of Japan,

the Burmese Independence Army
and the Indian National Army.

Burmese monks' protests escalate


supporters offer prayers
for Burma's Suu Kyi

Oct 25, 2007 04:30 AM

Burmese Nobel laureate Aung San Suu Kyi
was celebrated as prayers were sung and monks
in saffron robes chanted for her freedom
beneath the statute of Winston Churchill
at Toronto's City Hall.

"The happy news is that the Parliament of Canada
just recently named Aung San Suu Kyi as
an honorary Canadian citizen,"

Minthura Wynn told the crowd of about 100 supporters last night.

"But this is not enough.
What is the political measure?
Are we going to impose economic sanctions?
Are we going to support humanitarian assistance
for the people in Burma?"
Wynn asked the crowd,
some of whom held candles
or carried "Free Burma" signs.
...psst...billy, orgy's with animals, only distracts you and your sick and twisted ilk,
whereas we living, thinking human beings who don't get off on sex with animals,
are only interested in learning better, how to Truly LIVE...so thanks for further
taking your team out with sick shit they prefer to give their attention to.
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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  Billy Ruben on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:51 am


rolf thumbs up
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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  Billy Ruben on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:58 am

...psst...billy, orgy's with animals, only distracts you and your sick and twisted ilk,
whereas we living, thinking human beings who don't get off on sex with animals,
are only interested in learning better, how to Truly LIVE...so thanks for further
taking your team out with sick shit they prefer to give their attention to.



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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  true lilly on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:09 am

true lilly wrote:25-10-2007, 04:30 PM #292


Reading Thoroughbred Pedigrees,
is like reading ACTUAL HISTORY,
so this NEWS of
has been nagging at me
(no pun intended,
too many already in this story!)
being BANNED from our SPRING,
(The Race that STOPS a NATION)

Festival...too deep to ignore.

Sire: Hard Tack
Grandsire: Man o' War

On November 1, 1938,
Seabiscuit met War Admiral
in what was dubbed the
"Match of the Century".

Sire: Man o' War
Grandsire: Fair Play

Don't you just love these

Joke Joyce,
we hate 'em,

Latest North American Breeding & Sales News

The Rock Building Big Record
By Racing and Sports,
23 October 2007

The remarkable winning run of
Rock of Gibraltar
has continued in both hemispheres,

taking his tally of global stakes winners to 25.

Sire: Danehill
Grandsire: Danzig
Dam: Offshore Boom
Damsire: Be My Guest

Monday, 22 October 2007:

Rock Of Gibraltar's
Pillar Of Hercules

put himself in the Derby picture by
claiming the Group 2 Norman Robinson Stakes,
while Van Nistelrooy gained stakes success with
Vandolo in the Listed Winning Edge Cup.

Van Nistelrooy is based in America,
but shuttled to New Zealand's Trelawney Stud
for southern hemisphere duties.

The Pillars of Hercules Monument
Jews' Gate,

And this is only the introduction to where this is leading....
a whole tangle of
about to go about

25-10-2007, 04:59 PM #296
The Wisdom of Mark Twain

Ah yes, but why oh why do folk insist on
hanging on to already dead 'cultures',
that never 'saved' anyone then or since,
when the wise and "in the know"
like Twain, give us plenty enough hints as to
LIFE, WILL Begin....

An exert from
Following The Equator
by Mark Twain


harx bhullar wrote: 25-10-2007, 05:06 PM #298
harx bhullar Banned
These dutch people are fuckin evil man..

It's no wonder Hans Kolvenbach is dutch..

and that they use a LOT of "their" drugs..

If people don't soon start to realise
the anti-christ will be dutch
the new messiah will be australian,
there's no hope for them left..

Ofcourse Holland will be the new Atlantis
when it sinks beneath the
due to global warming..
It's a game "they" play every few-thousand
years or so..
until, 'The End Game'...and so you see,
they have always plotted
that GOD Promised to ISRAEL=O'Zion...
... and invented the 'out of Egypt' BS 'locations'
and BS 'time lines'
so that we wouldn't notice that
it's the real Israel and Judah they hate,
and actually get them to help rob themselves
of their Offered Glory...
...offered, but if you keep denying God's Word,
well how can you receive His Eternal Gifts,
Promised to those who DON'T REJECT HIS WORD
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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  Billy Ruben on Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:20 am

until, 'The End Game'...and so you see,
they have always plotted
that GOD Promised to ISRAEL=O'Zion...
... and invented the 'out of Egypt' BS 'locations'
and BS 'time lines'
so that we wouldn't notice that
it's the real Israel and Judah they hate,
and actually get them to help rob themselves
of their Offered Glory...
...offered, but if you keep denying God's Word,
well how can you receive His Eternal Gifts,
Promised to those who DON'T REJECT HIS WORD

BULLSHIT...Why is your word,that of the Holy Spirit...You Lilly,are one of the greatest blasphemers I ever met,You say God forgives,except when you deny the Holy Spirits word...and your word is the Holy Spirits...see,how you emotionally blackmail and play on peoples fears to keep control of them.It works well with people in your life,But I'm not one of them,but,thankfully,you use the same tactics on me as you do people in your life...you win with them,but with me,you just expose yourself completely,I take advantage of it...and destroy your readership,which is what you think I'm charged to do anyway...so,I play on your neurosis back...it's so much fun

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  true lilly on Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:59 am

Proverbs 4:
Hear 8085 , ye children 1121,
the instruction 4148 of a father 1,
and attend 7181 to know 3045 understanding 998.

For I give 5414 you good 2896 doctrine 3948,
forsake 5800 ye not my law 8451.

For I was my father's 1 son 1121,
tender 7390 and only 3173 [beloved]
in the sight 6440 of my mother 517.

He taught 3384 me also, and said 559 unto me,
Let thine heart 3820 retain 8551 my words 1697:
keep 8104 my commandments 4687, and live 2421 .

Get 7069 wisdom 2451, get 7069 understanding 998:
forget 7911 [it] not; neither decline 5186
from the words 561 of my mouth 6310.

Forsake 5800 her not, and she shall preserve 8104 thee:
love 157 her, and she shall keep 5341 thee.


Billy Ruben wrote:
Billy Ruben wrote:

until, 'The End Game'...and so you see,
they have always plotted
that GOD Promised to ISRAEL=O'Zion...
... and invented the 'out of Egypt' BS 'locations'
and BS 'time lines'
so that we wouldn't notice that
it's the real Israel and Judah they hate,
and actually get them to help rob themselves
of their Offered Glory...
...offered, but if you keep denying God's Word,
well how can you receive His Eternal Gifts,
Promised to those who DON'T REJECT HIS WORD

BULLSHIT...Why is your word,that of the Holy Spirit...
Not 'my' word, as I show with countless links for anyone to study,
but as to Why ALL of 'you' DEMAND NO ONE study it for themselves;
in GOD'S WORD, HOLY SCRIPTURE...and as to The Holy Spirit, well,
without IT, someone as cut off from formal education and influential society,
as me, simply could not have found all that I have found, and been as
blessed as I've been blessed, with what no man can make, buy or steal.

Note: for over 6 years, 'they' have dug high and low in an effort to
find my human 'source' of the things I know, that I 'shouldn't have
been able to know
', unless from a 'deep insider', and they have failed,
simply because I am a free, individual who has never put any man,
group or religion, above seeking to know, understand and faithfully
serve The Creator of Life.

And it's that fact about me, that makes 'them' attack me so violently.
That I have lived so long, By The Grace of God, and not been cowed
into rejecting God, despite all I've been made to suffer, nor bitterly
sought vengeance, nor lost the ability to take great joy in small blessings,
such as honest work, sharing with and caring for those in my power to help,
is something that 'they' are terrified others will take heart from, and so,

So best you not keep 'making it about me', instead of trying to find
how you might, 'make', "from the beginning of creation"=a handful
or so thousand years
, and have a red hot go at, trying to answer my
Key Question or dis-proving what I've consistently shown: GOD'S WORD,
recently discovering
(as God also said would be), and yet no worldly
religion dare update 'their' translations
(For the general public), but
INSIST we BELIEVE that THE CREATOR knew as little of the world as
was known a couple or few thousand years ago.

And if you really can't,
...well, I'm still learning about who GOD TELLS NOT to pray for...

...but I do have an awful long, short list...

The Revelation 602 of Jesus 2424 Christ 5547,
which 3739 God 2316 gave 1325 unto him 846,
to shew 1166 unto his 846 servants 1401 things
which 3739 must 1163 shortly 1722 5034 come to pass 1096 ;
and 2532 he sent 649 and signified 4591 [it]
by 1223 his 846 angel 32 unto his 846 servant 1401 John 2491:

Blessed 3107 [is] he that readeth 314 ,
and 2532 they that hear 191 the words 3056
of this prophecy 4394, and 2532 keep 5083
those things which are written 1125 therein 1722 846:
for 1063 the time 2540 [is] at hand 1451.

In 1722 the midst 3319 of the street 4113 of it 846,
and 2532 on either 2532 side 1782 1782 of the river 4215,
[was there] the tree 3586 of life 2222,
which bare 4160 twelve 1427 [manner of] fruits 2590,
[and] yielded 591 her 846 fruit 2590 every 2596 1538 1520 month 3376:
and 2532 the leaves 5444 of the tree 3586
[were] for 1519 the healing 2322 of the nations 1484.

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:21 pm

true lilly wrote: rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin
Not 'my' word, as I show with countless links for anyone to study,
but as to Why ALL of 'you' DEMAND NO ONE study it for themselves;
rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin rolling pin

Yeah, links to racist, antisemitic bullshit. Zion is Israel, NOT Australia. Your Eisogesis is: Deranged, Demented, Degenerate...etc............

Found!! A Source of Lillys madness!! She actually Posted their Link and menu thumbs up

This is the source of Lillys deformed/degenerate racist Theology.

So who or what is WCG?
Herbert W Armstrong:


Deceased founder of the Worldwide Church of God (originally the Radio Church of God), the Plain Truth magazine and the World Tomorrow radio and TV programs. During his lifetime, Armstrong was the self-proclaimed "Apostle" of the "only true church on earth today." Herbert Armstrong was father of television and radio evangelist Garner Ted Armstrong.
Garner Ted Armstrong:

Radio and television evangelist, son of Herbert W Armstrong. Garner Ted Armstrong was former chief spokesman on the media outreaches of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG). He founded the Church of God, International (CGI) after being expelled from the WCG in 1978 during a leadership power struggle in that organization. He later founded the Intercontinental Church of God (ICG) and the Garner Ted Armstrong Evangelistic Association after being expelled from the CGI in 1998 as a result of a highly-publicized sex scandal. Armstrong is the self-proclaimed "Ezekiel Watchman"... main prophetic spokesman for God on earth today. Died in fall 2003.

Their claims:
The identification of the descendants of Abraham is an important factor in understanding bible prophecy. The truth is that there are a great number of nations that are descended from Abraham and heir to the promises made by God to Abraham...The Tribal origin of these nations and also the identity of the English-Speaking people...
This could cover British Israelism or in America Christian Identity. (May not be the same.) The largest promoter of this nonsense is the mostly defunct churches of the Armstrong family churches and racist' hate groups. What separates them is their view of Jews. The basic idea is the white Americans and British are the lost Ten Tribes of Israel. The Jews/Israel of the Bible are my direct human ancestors (WASP) according to them. Think about that. The Bible tells us Abraham came from Ur, which is in present day Iraq. In other words, white Europeans are Semites related directly to the Arabs. Ishmael was the other son of Abraham and the traditional father of the Arabs. So the British are the half-brothers of the Saudis. When America and England invaded Iraq, we returned to our ancestral homeland. I don't think this is what they had in mind.

What to do about the Jews
Being blood-relations to Arabs is bad enough for the racists in their ranks, the idea of being related to Jews drives them even more insane. British Israelism as it started never claimed the Jews were not Israel, just the British (and later America) were one of the tribes of Israel.

But here it gets tricky. According to the Identity racists and some of the British Israelism types, the "Jews" we see today are imposters! They are converts from a 8th century Turkish tribe called the Khazars. (They fail to explain the fact the Jews from Muslim countries make up most of the population of Israel.) Jesus was wrong after all! His "brothers" the Jews really were not the children of Abraham! Any rational person would laugh at this nonsense. Now let's see how this relates to the real Israel, the Jews. What BI advocates is salvation by race, but how do they do away with and real Jews? They must prove the Jews are not the people of the Bible unless they want to claim Jews as blood brothers, totally unacceptable to those that are just racists. Thus they claim the European Jews are Turkish converts unrelated to the people of the Bible.....................

Apparently Lilly, the Queen of All Bullshit has drank their kool-aid and is now a Zombie!! cheers

Who are Israelites in the New Testament use of the word? Does the New Testament make a difference between a "fleshly Jew" and a fleshly "Israelite"? In answer to these questions, the following parallels are submitted:1. John preached repentance to the Jews "of Judea"-Mark 1:4-5.
But John preached "repentance to all people of Israel" Acts 13:24.

2. Nicodemus was "a ruler of the Jews"-John 3:1.
But Nicodemus was "a master of Israel" John 3:10.

3. Paul the apostle was "a Jew of Tarsus"-Acts 21 :39.
But Paul the apostle was also "an Israelite"-Rom. 11:1.

4. Paul called the Jews his own nation-Gal. 1:13-14.
But Paul called Israel his nation-Acts 28:17-20.

5. Paul was a fleshly Jew "by nature"-Gal. 2:15.
But Paul was the same kind of an Israelite-2 Cor. 11:22.

In Radio Address, Aug. 28, 1943, Dr. John Matthews said that Paul was a Jew only in a religious sense. Well, he was a Benjamite-Ph. 3 :15-and the tribe of Benjamin remained with Judah, not the ten tribes, hence not Israel, according to these modern "Israelites." Moreover, Paul's use of the word "Jew" in Acts 21:39, when he declared himself a Jew, was in contrast with the word "Egyptian" in verse 38, in the same connection. He was the same kind of a Jew that the other fellow was of "an Egyptian." Paul says that he was a fleshly Jew, a Jew by nature, a Hebrew and a Benjamite, yet we are told that he was a Jew only in a religious sense, a religious Jew by nature, or just naturally a religious Jew! A natural religious Jew, or a religious natural Jew-which? Such twaddle makes us feel like saying "Pshaw!"

6. Paul called Peter a Jew like "other Jews" Gal. 2:11-15.
Peter called himself a Jew in contrast with "another nation"-Acts 10:28.

7. Jews "out of every nation" were dwelling at Jerusalem-Acts 2:5.
Peter referred to all of these Jews as "men of Israel"-Acts 2:22.

8. The old covenant was given to the Jews-Rom. 3:1.
But the old covenant was given to Israel-Rom. 9:4.

9. Paul called the Jews the circumcision-Rom. 3 :29-30.
He referred to Israel as the circumcision-Gal. 6:13-16.

10. The gospel was first preached to the Jews-Rom. 1:16.
The gospel was first preached to Israel-Acts 10:36.

11. At first the gospel was preached only to the Jews-Acts 11:
19 But at first the gospel was preached to Israel-Acts 10:36.

12. The Jews and Israel were identified as being the same in Acts 13.
Verse 6 refers to the "synagogue of the Jews" in which Paul preached. In verse 16 Paul called them "men of Israel" and in verse 17 "this people of Israel." In verse 24 he says that John "had first preached repentance to all the people of Israel," in verse 26 he called them the "stock of Abraham," and in verse 33 he referred to the Jews as "us their children"; then, showing that the Jews were the ones to whom he was speaking, verse 42 says "when the Jews came out of the synagogue." So Acts 13 adds up to this: Paul went into the "synagogue of the Jews"; talking to the Jews in their synagogue, he called them "men of Israel," "this people Israel," "all the people of Israel," "stock of Abraham," and "us their children"-and-then "the Jews came out of the synagogue"-but Anglo-Israelists say that the Jews were not Israel.

13. Matthew called Jesus the king of the Jews-Matt. 27:29-37.
Mark called Jesus the king of Israel-Mark 15:17, 32.

Let it be observed here that Pilate asked only one question. He did not ask if Christ was king of the Jews and then ask if he was king of Israel. The records of Matthew and Mark therefore show that they used the terms interchangeably; one said that he was king of the Jews, but the other said that he was king of Israel-but they meant the same thing. Therefore, Jews and Israel were understood by the gospel writers as being one and the same thing

14. Paul declares that Jesus was of the tribe of Judah-Heb.7:14
John declares that Jesus was Lion of the tribe of Judah Rev 5:5

If Paul had been of the tribe of Judah, would Anglo-Israelists admit that he was a Jew? Yes. Then, since Jesus Christ was of the tribe of Judah, what keeps him from being a Jew? Yet the Anglo-Israelists insist that neither Christ nor any of the apostles of Christ were Jews. Jesus was of the tribe of Judah; Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin, which merged with Judah and continued under the name of Judah. This fact is clearly stated in 1 Kings 12:2023. So Paul the Benjamite, and Jesus the Judahitc but neither of them was a Jew according to an Anglo-Israelite.

16. Finally-in his conversation with the Samaritan woman. Jesus said that he was a Jew John 4:9-22.
First, the woman of Samaria said to Jesus: "How is it that thou being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria ? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans." Here Jesus permitted this woman to call him a Jew, and John the apostle wrote it down that way in the gospel record. Then m verse 22, Jesus said to the woman, "Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews." Thus Jesus accepted the name Jew when the woman called hind one, and then in referring to "ye" and "we" when replying to her he called himself one.

As the matter stands, Paul the Hebrew, the Benjamite, the Israelite, was a Jew. Jesus who "sprang out of Judah," and who was the "Lion of the tribe of Judah," was a Jew. Paul said "we Jews"-Gal. 2:15-and Jesus said "we Jews" John 4 22-so Jesus and Paul were Jews if their own words count any thing or have any meaning. The baseless assertions of Anglo-Israelists to the contrary, notwithstanding.

Seventh: They must prove that God chose the ten tribes over Judah. In Psa. 78:67-68 David says very specifically that God "refused the tabernacle of Joseph" and "chose not the tribe of Ephraim" but "chose the tribe of Judah." (WWW.BIBLE.CA) To quote,

Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim: But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved.
When did God change his mind and elect the British? If the Bible is so overwhelming in disproving this nonsense, how can they still believe it? They claim the Bible is a fraud! According to them all the bibles everyone uses today are based on frauds printed by the Rothchilds in the 1700s! One just can't make this stuff up. This is the point when fundamentalism is mental illness.

http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/fundienazis/cr.htm popcorn

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:22 pm

Biblical Hermeneutics and Inductive Study

Lilly & Rodins Fatal Flaw in Exegesis


The consensus in the world today is that the average person can't accurately interpret what the Bible says. Do the following statements sound familiar to you?:

"We should rely on the clergy/experts to tell us what the Bible means."

This statement reflects the assumption that the meaning of scripture is beyond the reach of the average person.

"People have always disagreed about the meaning of the Bible (different denominations)."

People have disagreed, and sometimes their disagreements have been brutal. So is the best posture tolerance of hermeneutical diversity? To what extent? Are all meanings valid?

"The Bible has been used to justify everything you can think of. You can make it mean anything you want it to mean."

We can show clear historical instances in which people have interpreted the Bible through their own cultural values, often without even being aware of it. EXAMPLES: slavery (using Old Testament permission vs. Philemon & New Testament silence); women (patriarchal views vs. Bible); capitalism as a biblically sanctioned economic system; Christian psychology self-help books proof-texting secular theories (e.g., Self-Esteem).

Can we become aware of our own cultural values sufficiently to avoid this, or should such historical abuse lead us to cynicism about the possibility of "objective interpretation?"

"That's just your interpretation." "It's impossible to determine the original author's meaning, rather, as we read it, we create our own meaning for the text."

These statements reflect the relativism and postmodernism that has permeated our whole culture.

The challenge:

You may realize these are all secular, non-Christian objections. But what about the following scenarios?

In a home Bible study when someone says "What this passage means to me is . . ." And then someone else says, "That's great. But I got a different meaning (and his meaning is contradictory)." And everyone concludes by saying "Praise God for all the great insight we're getting!" Aren't we violating the law of non-contradiction by accepting this resolution?'

What about this story: "Almost twenty years ago I rode in a car with a fellow believer who relayed to me what the Lord had 'told' him that morning in his quiet time. He had been reading the KJV of Matthew; and I perceived that not only had he misunderstood the archaic English, but also that the KJV at that place had unwittingly misrepresented the Greek text. I gently suggested there might be another way to understand the passage and summarized what I thought the passage was saying. The brother dismissed my view as impossible on the grounds that the Holy Spirit, who does not lie, had told him the truth on this matter. Being young and bold, I pressed on with my explanation of grammar, context, and translation, but was brushed off by a reference to 1 Cor. 2:10b-15: spiritual things must be spiritually discerned-which left little doubt about my status. Genuinely intrigued, I asked this brother what he would say if I put forward my interpretation, not on the basis of grammar and text, but on the basis that the Lord himself had given me the interpretation I was advancing. He was silent a long time, and then concluded, 'I guess that would mean the Spirit says the Bible means different things to different people.'" D. A. Carson, Exegetical Fallacies (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House Co., 1984) p. 13.
If we accept this, aren't we accepting relativism in the name of spiritual experience?

Definition of Hermeneutics: The science/art of interpreting texts.

2 Tim 2:15* Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.

"handling accurately" implies there is a proper interpretation
"be diligent" implies there are obstacles and difficulties involved
"ashamed" implies good interpretation is achievable

These issues highlight the importance of two closely related areas of bibliology: hermeneutics and perspicuity.......................

Definition: Perspicuity means "essential clarity." Biblical perspicuity means that the Bible is understandable with regard to its main message.

Everything in the Bible is not equally clear (2 Pet. 3:15,16), but the main message is sufficiently clear for us to be saved and accomplish God's purpose. The biblical authors assumed their readers could understand their main message.

What do these authors assume about the perspicuity of the Bible?

Jn. 20:31 - John thinks that his book is understandable enough that the average reader of his day could get saved by reading it (see also 1 Jn. 5:13).

2 Tim. 3:14,15 - Paul says the main message of scripture is understandable enough for children to get saved by it.

1 Jn. 5:13 - John expected his audience to be able to understand his message well enough to have assurance of salvation.

"The Bible is basically clear and lucid. It is simple enough for any literate person to understand its basic message. This is not to say that all parts of the Bible are equally clear or that there are no difficult passages or sections to be found in it. Laymen unskilled in the ancient languages and the fine points of exegesis may have difficulty with parts of scripture, but the essential content is clear enough to be understood easily." [R. C. Sproul, Knowing Scripture (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1977), p 15.]

This belief in perspicuity was a major element in Reformation thinking. Luther opposed the Roman Catholic teaching that only the clergy was qualified to interpret the Bible.

Responses to attacks on Biblical perspicuity
E.G. - The Bible is so complicated. Who could understand it?

PRESUPPOSITIONAL DEFENSE: Doesn't it make sense that if a loving God has recorded a vital message for humans, he would communicate it in such a way that we can understand that message? Only a cruel, sadistic God would purposefully record his message in such an obscure way that we could not be reasonably certain we understand it.

E.G. - "We're so far in time and culture from the original author, therefore we could never understand what he intended."

POSTMODERN CRITICS CONTRADICT THEMSELVES: Those who resort to radical skepticism about the clarity of the Bible expect me to understand their objection! I often reply by saying, "I can't understand what you mean . . . " QUALIFICATION: There is more distance between us and the biblical text, but to say it is unbridgeable is a faith assertion . . .

E.G. - "If it's so easy to interpret, why are there so many denominations?"

HISTORICAL AGREEMENT ABOUT THE BIBLE'S MAIN MESSAGE: Wherever the Bible has been the final authority, Christians have agreed on the main message. Their disagreements with each other have been over issues which, while often important, are not crucial. This is why documents like the Apostles Creed can be formulated and agreed on by Christians from many different denominations down through the centuries. This is why it is possible for us to provide you with a concise "Statement of Faith" which agrees with historic Christianity.

E.G. - "Then…why do Christian groups disagree on essential doctrines?"

But clearly, "Christian" groups have also disagreed in their interpretation of even essential doctrines (CATHOLICS). How can this be explained? The answer to this question is surprisingly simple: Because another authority has replaced God's Word. They have made either official or unofficial additions to the canon. The Bible is then ignored and/or twisted to support that new authority's doctrines. There are hundreds of examples of this:

RELIGIOUS TRADITION: Rabbinic "oral law" (Mk. 7:8,9)

NEW "SCRIPTURES": Book of Mormon; Apocrypha (on purgatory)

"KEYS" TO BIBLICAL INTERPRETATION: Christian Science's Key To Science & Health; Rev. Moon's Divine Principle; Roman Catholic Papal Infallibility & "Canon Law" (Catechism quote??)

SKEWED TRANSLATIONS OF THE BIBLE: Jehovah's Witness's Watchtower Version (Jn. 1:1); Mormon Bible

ALIEN PRESUPPOSITIONS: Naturalism in Thomas Jefferson's Revised Deist Bible; Liberal Theology; Pantheistic Avatars (manifestations of the divine light); Postmodern Thought

So the issue here is actually not one of differing interpretations at all, or that the Bible is unclear on essential matters, but of differing spiritual authorities.

God has made his main message clear to us in three ways:
By using language that is sufficiently clear. If we approach the Bible like we would approach any other piece of literature, we find that its main message is indeed understandable.
Consider this statement: "GO TO THE KROGER STORE AND BUY 10 LBS. OF POTATOES." Now we might reasonably ask which Kroger store and which kind of potatoes. If we were unfamiliar with American culture, we might even ask what a potato is and how much a pound is. But would it ever be acceptable to interpret this statement to mean: "GO TO THE HIMALAYAN MOUNTAINS AND MEDITATE ON YOUR NAVEL?" Would it be correct to say no one can be confident he understands this statement?

Now consider this statement: "HE WHO BELIEVES IN THE SON HAS ETERNAL LIFE; BUT HE WHO DOES NOT OBEY THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE, BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDES ON HIM." (Jn. 3:36) We might reasonably ask who the Son is, what "believe" means, or if "believe" and "obey" are being used synonymously. But would it ever be acceptable to interpret this statement to mean: "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT RELIGION YOU BELIEVE BECAUSE EVERYONE GOES TO HEAVEN?" Would it be correct to say that no one can be confident he understands this statement?

"When it comes to the central core of the Christian faith . . . the biblical evidence is overwhelming. The deity of Christ, the triune nature of God, the creation of the world by God, the sinfulness of all humanity, salvation by grace through faith, the resurrection of the dead—these and many other such matters are clearly taught in scripture." [James Sire, Scripture Twisting (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1980), pp. 12,13.]

"The main things are the plain things."

By repeating the main message. If you want your young children to understand something important, you say it to them several times and in different ways. There are many doctrines which are repeated and stated in many ways for clarity sake (How we get his acceptance--different atonement words to different audiences; our dilemma with God is spiritual and moral; that God is a personal God; etc.).

By giving the Holy Spirit to help us understand and apply his Word. God's love for us is so deep that he gets supernaturally involved to teach us the meaning of his Word and how we should respond to it. Theologians call this the illuminating work of the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor. 2:12 - As we come to the Bible humbly asking for God's help in understanding his Word so that we may obey it (Jn. 7:17), he promises through his Spirit to illuminate its meaning and importance for our lives.

2 Tim. 2:7* - "7 Consider what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything." Nevertheless, we have a part to play in interpreting God's Word (vs. 7: "consider ["exercise the mind"] what I say").

Eph. 1:16-18ff ...do not cease giving thanks for you, while making mention of you in my prayers; 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened...
Paul opens his letters to the Philippians and Colossians in a similar way.

This brings us to the subject of how to interpret... .......................

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:25 pm

Grammatico-Historical Hermeneutics

Definition: A method of interpretation that takes into account common rules of grammar and syntax and the author's historical context.

The goal of biblical hermeneutics is to ascertain as closely as possible the meaning intended by the original author. We want the interpreter to remain under the authority of the text instead of imposing his or her meaning on the text. If we can accomplish this, we can hear God speak to us through his inspired author! A goal worth pursuing.

While there may be many valid applications of a text, there is only one valid interpretation. An interpretation is the author's intended meaning; an application is how the reader should respond.

Exegesis: Extracting the meaning from the text

Lillys Fatal Flaw:
Eisogesis: Projection of reader bias onto the text.

Mark 12:31 "Love your neighbor as yourself." Does this mean that we cannot venture into loving others until we first have a healthy love for ourselves? This is a common misinterpretation. Or does Christ presume we already love ourselves, even selfishly, and therefore we need to step out NOW and serve others? The latter most certainly squares with the rest of scripture. The applications for the latter may be more than we like to think about!

The task of the interpreter is to ascertain that intended meaning if possible, using the following tools.

Three Principles that should guide our interpretation

1. INTERPRET GRAMMATICALLY: Take the normal meaning of the words, phrases and sentences unless it is impossible to do so. The interpretation must correspond to the words and grammar in the text in a reasonable way. Otherwise, there is no objective control over the interpreter (EXAMPLES: see "Hermeneutical Schools"). Most of the Bible can be interpreted by simply taking the language (either in the original or in translation) in the usual way. In other words, "If the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense."


Allow for figures of speech. A plain sense reading should not be confused with a literalistic interpretation.
Psa. 91:4 He will cover you with His pinions, And under His wings you may seek refuge; His faithfulness is a shield and bulwark.

Lk. 22:19 - " . . . this is my body . . . " Where was Jesus' body when he said this? See his other metaphors (door; bread; etc.).

Col. 1:15 - " . . . the first-born of all creation . . . " The Old Testament sometimes uses this term to refer to "heir" (Ex. 4:22; Jer. 31:9). Heb. 1:6,7 uses it to refer to Jesus as the object of angelic worship.

Allow for symbolism. If a passage is symbolic or contains symbols, this should be indicated in the text, either by textual cues or because symbolism is required in order to make sense of the text. The Bible itself explains most symbols.
Rev. 1:9-20 - The symbols are identified as such ("like") and explained. Most of biblical symbols are handled this way. Many other symbols in Revelation have been previously explained in Daniel.

2. INTERPRET HISTORICALLY: Historical interpretation means that we take into account the historical background of the author and the recipients. We are not interested at first in the question, "What does it mean to me?" but rather, "What did it mean to the original audience?" Use Bible dictionaries, encyclopedias, commentaries, or other sources to learn more about customs, money, geography, etc. We need to ascertain the original intent before we apply any biblical teaching.

Gen. 15:7-21 - "Cutting a covenant" solemnized a contract between two parties. It was normally bilateral (both parties walked through), but only God goes through >> GRACE COVENANT.

1 Cor. 11:4-6 - Shorn hair was typical of Aphrodite priestess-prostitutes; shaven heads were typical of convicted adulteresses (vs. 5).

The parable of the Good Samaritan (Lk. 10), 300 Denarii (John 12:3-5), 50,000 Drachma (Acts 19:19).

Pharisees' teaching on the relationship between illness and sin (Mk. 2)

3. INTERPRET CRITICALLY: Your interpretation must make rational sense. The entire Bible is the product of one author (God) at the same time that it is the product of many authors. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect a consistent message throughout the Bible. Some of these rules are logical implications of a belief in the verbal plenary inspiration of scripture.

FIVE PRACTICAL RULES - These rules will help you to arrive at a critically sound interpretation.

a. Interpret in light of the context of the passage (which author? book? passage?). Never view a passage in isolation from its surroundings. The context should be considered the most important kind of evidence in the interpretation of a passage. Only when no critically feasible interpretation can be found can we claim that a break in context was intended.

Mt. 16:28 - Referring to the transfiguration (in context of passage) "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who shall not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
2 Peter 1:16- confirms that Peter was an eye witness of Christ's "majesty."

Jas. 1:6-8 - The "doubter" is not simply any Christian who has occasional doubts. He is the "double-minded man," whom James further describes in 4:8 (in context of book) as Christians who posture themselves as loving God but really love the world.

b. Interpret in light of progressive revelation

(Heb. 1:1,2). God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Heb 8:13 When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

While God's purpose for man has never changed, his strategy in accomplishing that purpose has changed. He has dealt with man under different "covenants," or "dispensations." Therefore, it is important to ask, "Under which program was this written?" Primary application of the passage will be to the people operating under that program, but not necessarily to others. There may be secondary applications for other programs based on principles which have universal application.

Ex. 20:8-10 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the LORD your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you."

Animal sacrifices, dietary laws, Sabbaths, holy days, festivals, priests and liturgy have all been fulfilled in Christ and are thus obsolete (compare with Col. 2:16,17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ." and Heb. Cool.

Theocracy was commanded in the Old Testament, but secular government is affirmed in the New Testament (Rom. 13:1-7; Mt. 22:21).

Mal. 3:7-12 - The practice of tithes should be seen in context of the Old Testament (see Num. 18:21-24; Deut. 14:22-29)

c. Interpret scripture in harmony with other scripture. Since the Bible is inspired by God, it does not contradict itself. Therefore, never interpret scripture in such a way that it clearly contradicts other scriptures. If a passage can be legitimately interpreted in more than one way, choose the interpretation that doesn't contradict other scriptures.

Go back to the initial example of Mark 12:31- "Love your neighbor as yourself." We must interpret this passage in harmony with Jesus' other teachings.

Acts 2:38 could be referring to either baptismal regeneration, or simply adding baptism as a desirable adjunct to the minimum requirement for salvation (i.e., faith). In view of the clear teaching on salvation by grace through faith alone, the latter interpretation is preferable.

d. Interpret the unclear in light of the clear. Every major, essential truth is taught clearly and many times. Never build a doctrine on an unclear passage.

Lk. 16:9 "And I say to you, make friends for yourselves by means of the mammon of unrighteousness; that when it fails, they may receive you into the eternal dwellings." . . . is used by Roman Catholics to support indulgences.

1 Cor. 15:29 "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?" . . . mentions an obscure, unknown practice used in Corinth. Paul doesn't affirm this practice; he just asks why they're doing it if they don't believe in resurrection. Today, the Mormon church uses this passage to elevate dead ancestors to a higher status in the afterlife.

e. Interpret in light of the literary style. The literary style (genre) affects our understanding of the passage. For example, Proverbs should not be interpreted axiomatically like didactic theological statements in the gospels and epistles. It contains many general maxims, but not all proverbs are absolute promises.

Proverbs 22:6 - Train up a child in the way he should go, Even when he is old he will not depart from it.

We realize, not every child will go right, but most will.

Proverbs 15:1 - A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

Obviously, not every gentle word will turn away wrath, but in most cases it works.

Contrast these to the didactic teaching of Rom. 8:1.

Which of these rules implies belief in verbal plenary inspiration?

Lilly & Rodins Fatal Flaw in Exegesis, they project their own bias and their interpretation becomes Eisogesis.. cont...... thumbs up

eisogesis: subjectivism. Reading into text something that isn’t there at all. Greek. Same root as exegesis with different prefix. "eis" means "into."


Eisogesis is the act of putting meaning into a text where it is not there.


Eisogesis is, I believe, a form of Psychological Projection which is in the end nothing more than a good old fashioned defense mechanism.

The vernacular, I suppose, is called, "selective hearing" and/or "selective reading" and/or "selective seeing", and/or, etc., etc., etc.

"Exegesis is the process of getting "out" ('ex') of the text what is truly there in the first place. The opposite to exegesis is eisogesis. This is the process of putting "into" the text something that wasn't intended by the author. So let's explore how to do eisogesis (although most people don't actually need to be instructed on how to do this!). thumbs up

And here's a fascinating powerpoint presentation that a College Professor did on the difference between exegesis and eisegesis:

I would speculate that the following is probably true in regard to Mike Tannehill's chronic use of this fallacious hermeneutical technique:

"Eisegesis often reflects psychological needs"
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You're welcome in advance. wave wacky boobies

And there ^ Dear Readers is Lillys Fatal Flaw; she projects her antisemitic bias onto the scriptural text. She extracts Target Verses from their true context and twists and distorts them to fit her deranged antisemitic Bias. thumbs up

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:27 pm


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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:29 pm

Lilly, define Mizraim and Zion: thumbs up

Mizraim means Egypt. Zion is Israel, NOT Australia thumbs up

Europe is a LARGER Continent then Australia. As a matter of FACT; Australia is the SMALLEST/RUNT Continent. And as large it may be, the size of your EGO makes it uncomfortably confining. But hey, that's only one of your many lies and deceptions. Let's talk about Mizraim, the Hebrew word for Egypt. You say it isn't. Where is your credentialed support for your ignorant nonsense? thumbs up


Meaning and etymology of the name Mizraim

Mizraim is a son of Ham, son of Noah (Genesis 12:10). This name is also the common name for Egypt (which is also known as 'the land of Ham,', for instance in Psalm 105:23).

Egypt was known by the names Musuru, Musru, Misir or Masri in other languages, and Mizraim is probably simply a phonetic transliteration into Hebrew of any of them. The word looks identical to what a dual form of would look like (see below). This duality possibly helped to denote Upper and Lower Egypt. The word for Egyptian is .

The similar (masor), a poetic nickname for Egypt that is used on three different occasions (Isaiah 19:6, 2 Kings 19:24 = Isaiah 37:25, Micah 7:12), may shed some understanding on how a Hebrew audience might have interpreted the name Mizraim.

The noun (masor) means siege, entrenchment, and it derives from the verb (sur), bind, besiege. Another derivation of this same verb is the noun , stronghold. HAW Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament notes that a stronghold or walled city may be an instrument of protection during the first stages of a war, but will turn into a lethal trap if a siege last long. A beautiful figurative use of this word occurs in Psalm 31:21, where the author compares himself under siege by his troubles.

The verb from which the noun derives, is part of a group of five different roots. These roots all have different linguistic sources but were perhaps readily incorporated into the Hebrew language due to similar or related meanings, more or less:
(swr) is the assumed root of the words (sawwar), neck and (sawwaron), necklace. The neck is simply a part of the body, but figuratively it is used as seat of strength (Job 39:19) and subsequently as target of defeat (by the placing of the victor's foot on the neck of the conquered - Joshua 10:24). The similarity between a necklace and a besieging army is obvious.
The verb (sur) means to bind or besiege; referred to above.
The verb (sur) means show hostility to, be an adversary. According to BDB Theological Dictionary and HAW Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, this verb is probably a by-form of (sarar), see below.
The verb (sur) means to form or fashion. According to HAW Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, this verb is possibly a by-form of (yasar), form or fashion.
The noun (sur) does not occur in the Bible, but is probably related to words in cognate languages that mean rock or hill. A derivative that does occur in the Bible is (sur), the common Biblical word for rock. BDB Theological Dictionary suggests relations with (sara), see below.

The words and are linguistically closely related. Their respective meanings also shows much kinship:
The verb (sarar) means to bind, be narrow/ confined, be in distress. Derivatives are: (sar), narrow, tight; (sar), distress; (sara), straights, distress; (sarar), suffer distress; (seror), bundle; (mesar), straights, distress. The latter word written in a dual form would yield the name , Mizraim. Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names assumed that this is what Mizraim would have meant to a Hebrew audience and reads Double Distress.
The verb (sarar) means show hostility towards. Derivation (sar) means adversary.
The assumed root (srr) is unused in the Bible but in Arabic it means be sharp. Its common derivative is (sar), pebble, flint.

The name Mizraim means Double Distress or Double Stronghold.

Bible Dictionary

Mizraim definition

the dual form of matzor, meaning a "mound" or "fortress," the name of a people descended from Ham (Gen. 10:6, 13; 1 Chr. 1:8, 11). It was the name generally given by the Hebrews to the land of Egypt (q.v.), and may denote the two Egypts, the Upper and the Lower. The modern Arabic name for Egypt is Muzr.

Mizraim From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Mizraim (Hebrew: מִצְרַיִם / מִצְרָיִם, Modern Mitzráyim Tiberian Miṣrāyim / Miṣráyim ; cf. Arabic مصر, Miṣr) is the Hebrew name for the land of Egypt, with the dual suffix -āyim, perhaps referring to the "two Egypts": Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt.

Ugaritic inscriptions refer to Egypt as Msrm, in the Amarna tablets it is called Misri, and Assyrian and Babylonian records called Egypt Musur and Musri. The Arabic word for Egypt is Misr (pronounced Masr in Egyptian colloquial Arabic), and Egypt's official name is Gumhuriyah Misr al-'Arabiyah (the Arab Republic of Egypt).

According to Genesis 10, Mizraim (a son of Ham) was the younger brother of Cush and elder brother of Phut and Canaan, whose families together made up the Hamite branch of Noah's descendants. Mizraim's sons were Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim, Pathrusim, Casluhim (out of whom came Philistim), and Caphtorim.[1]

According to Eusebius' Chronicon, Manetho had suggested that the great age of antiquity in which the later Egyptians boasted had actually preceded the flood, and that they were really descended from Mizraim, who settled there anew. A similar story is related by medieval Islamic historians such as Sibt ibn al-Jawzi, the Egyptian Ibn Abd-el-Hakem, and the Persians al-Tabari and Muhammad Khwandamir, stating that the pyramids, etc. had been built by the wicked races before the deluge, but that Noah's descendant Mizraim (Masar or Mesr) was entrusted with reoccupying the region afterward. The Islamic accounts also make Masar the son of a Bansar or Beisar and grandson of Ham, rather than a direct son of Ham, and add that he lived to the age of 700. Some scholars think it likely that Mizraim is a dual form of the word Misr meaning "land", and was translated literally into Ancient Egyptian as Ta-Wy (the Two Lands) by early pharaohs at Thebes, who later founded the Middle Kingdom.

But according to George Syncellus, the Book of Sothis, supposedly by Manetho, had identified Mizraim with the legendary first pharaoh Menes, said to have unified the Old Kingdom and built Memphis. Misraim also seems to correspond to Misor, said in Phoenician mythology to have been father of Taautus who was given Egypt, and later scholars noticed that this also recalls Menes, whose son or successor was said to be Athothis.

In Judaism, Mitzrayim has been connected with the word meitzar (מיצר), meaning "sea strait", possibly alluding to narrow gulfs from both sides of Sinai peninsula. It also can mean "boundaries, limits, restrictions" or "narrow place".[citation needed]

However, author David Rohl has suggested a different interpretation: "Amongst the followers of Meskiagkasher [Cush] was his younger 'brother' -- in his own right a strong and charismatic leader of men. He is the head of the falcon tribe -- the descendants of Horus the 'Far Distant'. The Bible calls this new Horus-king 'Mizraim' but this name is, in reality, no more than an epithet. It means 'follower of Asr' or 'Asar' (Arabic m-asr with the Egyptian preposition m 'from'). Mizraim is merely m-Izra with the majestic plural ending 'im'. Likewise, that other great Semitic-speaking people -- the Assyrians -- called the country of the pharaohs 'Musri' (m-Usri)." [2]

Genesis 10 - The Table of Nations
The tenth chapter of Genesis . . . stands absolutely alone in ancient literature, without a remote parallel, even among the Greeks, where we find the closest approach to a distribution of peoples in genealogical framework . . . The Table of Nations remains an astonishing accurate document. (William F. Albright, cited in Boice)

A. The descendants of Japheth.

1. (1) The three sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Now this is the genealogy of the sons of Noah: Shem, Ham, and Japheth. And sons were born to them after the flood.

2. (2) The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.

The sons of Japheth were Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.

a. The sons of Japheth: He was the father of the Indo-European peoples, those stretching from India to the shores of Western Europe. They are each linked by linguistic similarities that often seem invisible to the layman but are much more obvious to the linguist.

b. Gomer: From this son of Japheth came the Germanic peoples, from whom came most of the original peoples of Western Europe. These include the original French, Spanish, and Celtic settlers.

c. Magog . . . Tubal, Meshech: These settled in the far north of Europe and became the Russian peoples.

d. Madai: From this son of Japheth came the ancient Medes and they populated what are now Iran and Iraq. The peoples of India also came from this branch of Japheth’s family.

e. Javan: From this son of Japheth came the ancient Greeks, whose sea-faring ways are described in Genesis 10:5.

3. (3) The sons of Gomer.

The sons of Gomer were Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.

a. Ashkenaz: From this son of Gomer came the peoples who settled north of Judea into what we call the Fertile Crescent.

b. Togarmah: From this son of Gomer came the Armenians.

4. (4-5) The sons of Javan (the ancient Greeks).

The sons of Javan were Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim. From these the coastland peoples of the Gentiles were separated into their lands, everyone according to his language, according to their families, into their nations.

a. The sons of Javan were: Geographic names that spring from these names in this chapter abound. Linguists have no trouble seeing the connection between Kittim and Cyprus, Rodanim and Rhodes, Gomer and Germany, Meschech and Moscow, Tubal and Tobolsk.

B. The descendants of Ham.

1. (6) The sons of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.

The sons of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.

a. Ham: The descendants of Ham are the peoples who populated Africa and the Far East.

b. Cush: Apparently, this family divided into two branches early. Some founded Babylon (notably, Nimrod) and others founded Ethiopia.

c. Mizraim: This is another way the Bible refers to Egypt. Put refers to Libya, the region of North Africa west of Egypt. Canaan refers to the peoples who originally settled the land we today think of as Israel and its surrounding regions.
2. (7-12) The sons of Cush.

The sons of Cush were Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabtechah; and the sons of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan. Cush begot Nimrod; he began to be a mighty one on the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the Lord; therefore it is said, “Like Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord.” And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. From that land he went to Assyria and built Nineveh, Rehoboth Ir, Calah, and Resen between Nineveh and Calah (that is the principal city).

a. Cush begot Nimrod: One son of Cush worthy of note is Nimrod. He was a mighty one on the earth, but not in a good way. He ruled over Babel, which was the first organized rebellion of humans against God. The name Nimrod itself means, “let us rebel.”

b. Like Nimrod the mighty hunter before the Lord: The context shows that this is not a compliment of Nimrod. The idea is that Nimrod was an offense before the face of God.

i. “This is not talking about Nimrod’s ability to hunt wild game. He was not a hunter of animals. He was a hunter of men - a warrior. It was through his ability to fight and kill and rule ruthlessly that his kingdom of the Euphrates valley city states was consolidated.” (Boice)

ii. A Jerusalem Targum says: “He was powerful in hunting and in wickedness before the Lord, for he was a hunter of the sons of men, and he said to them, ‘Depart from the judgment of the Lord, and adhere to the judgment of Nimrod!’ Therefore it is said: ‘As Nimrod the strong one, strong in hunting, and in wickedness before the Lord.’ ”

iii. Ginzberg quotes from a Jewish legend: “The great success that attended all of Nimrod’s undertakings produced a sinister effect. Men no longer trusted in God, but rather in their own prowess and ability, an attitude to which Nimrod tried to convert the whole world.”

iv. “Hence it is likely that Nimrod, having acquired power, used it in tyranny and oppression; and by rapine and violence founded the domination which was the first distinguished by the name of a kingdom on the face of the earth. How many kingdoms have been founded in the same way, in various ages and nations from that time to the present! From the Nimrods of the earth, God deliver the world!” (Clarke)

3. (13-14) The sons of Mizraim.

Mizraim begot Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim, Pathrusim, and Casluhim (from whom came the Philistines and Caphtorim).

4. (15-19) The sons of Canaan.

Canaan begot Sidon his firstborn, and Heth; the Jebusite, the Amorite, and the Girgashite; the Hivite, the Arkite, and the Sinite; the Arvadite, the Zemarite, and the Hamathite. Afterward the families of the Canaanites were dispersed. And the border of the Canaanites was from Sidon as you go toward Gerar, as far as Gaza; then as you go toward Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboiim, as far as Lasha.

a. Canaan begot Sidon: The family of Sidon, the son of Canaan, went north and is related to the Hittites and Lebanese.

b. And the Sinite: Many people believe the Oriental peoples descended from the Sinites.

5. (20) The spread of the descendants of Ham.

These were the sons of Ham, according to their families, according to their languages, in their lands and in their nations.

C. The descendants of Shem.

1. (21-22) The sons of Shem: Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram.

And children were born also to Shem, the father of all the children of Eber, the brother of Japheth the elder. The sons of Shem were Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad, Lud, and Aram.

a. Children were born also to Shem: From Shem comes Elam, who was an ancestor to the Persian peoples; Asshur, who was the father of the Assyrians; Lud was father to the Lydians who lived for a time in Asia Minor; and Aram was father to the Arameans, who we also know as the Syrians. Arphaxad was the ancestor to Abram and the Hebrews.

2. (23) The sons of Aram.

The sons of Aram were Uz, Hul, Gether, and Mash.

a. Uz: Later, a region in Arabia was named after this son of Aram.

Job came from the land of Uz (Job 1:1).

3. (24-30) The sons and descendants of Arphaxad.

Arphaxad begot Salah, and Salah begot Eber. To Eber were born two sons: the name of one was Peleg, for in his days the earth was divided; and his brother’s name was Joktan. Joktan begot Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth, Jerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, Obal, Abimael, Sheba, Ophir, Havilah, and Jobab. All these were the sons of Joktan. And their dwelling place was from Mesha as you go toward Sephar, the mountain of the east.

a. All these were the sons of Joktan: The names under the son of Joktan (son of Eber, son of Salah, son of Arphaxad) are all associated with various Arabic peoples.

b. And Jobab: The one named Jobab may be the one we know as Job in the Old Testament.

4. (31) The spread of the descendants of Shem.

These were the sons of Shem, according to their families, according to their languages, in their lands, according to their nations.
5. (32) Summary statement: the nations after the flood.

These were the families of the sons of Noah, according to their generations, in their nations; and from these the nations were divided on the earth after the flood.

a. “Hence one must consider this chapter of Genesis a mirror in which to discern that we human beings are, namely, creatures so marred by sin that we have no knowledge of our own origin, not even of God Himself, our Creator, unless the Word of God reveals these sparks of divine light to us from afar . . . This knowledge the Holy Scriptures reveal to us. Those who are without them live in error, uncertainty, and boundless ungodliness; for they have no knowledge about who they are and whence they came.” (Luther, cited in Boice)
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You also deceive about the Replacement/Superssessionism Theology......This is Strike 3 and a few more to go. thumbs up


The Truth

We believe Israel is God's special people, distinct from the body of Messiah, chosen by Him to be a holy nation and a Kingdom of priests. The election of Israel is irrevocable. . . . We believe the Abrahamic Covenant is an irrevocable, unconditional covenant God made with Jewish people. This covenant provides title to the land of Israel for the Jewish people and promises a descendant (the Messiah) who would come to redeem Israel and bless the entire world. The spiritual blessings of the Abrahamic Covenant overflow to all the nations. God will ultimately fulfill every aspect of the covenant in the Messianic Kingdom, both physical and spiritual. . . .
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Your LIE!!!!!!!


The meaning of this doctrine is that the church superseded or replaced Israel as God's covenant people. The three claims presented under this heading are:
1. God has rejected Israel,
2. the church has replaced Israel as God's covenant people, and
3. the church is therefore spiritual Israel.

If God has rejected Israel, then that clears the way for a replacement people; and if that people is the church, then the church may be considered spiritual Israel. It is also conceivable that some who believe that Israel is still God's covenant people would consider the church spiritual Israel because it is composed of people whose spirits have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. We will now hold the light of Scripture to these claims and possibilities.
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Paul follows his emphatic response with, for I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. . . . What is his point? If God had rejected Israel as His covenant people, then every Israelite would be disqualified from the possibility of being saved; yet he is an Israelite who is saved, and that proves that God has not rejected His people.

To sum up, we have noticed two proofs that God has not rejected Israel as His covenant people:
1. By the very meaning of May it never be! in the way that Paul used it in different contexts.
2. By the fact that Paul was a saved Israelite.

Nevertheless, we'll address several passages that need clarification.

b. Romans 11:1-5

1. I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2. God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3. "Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE." 4. But what is the divine response to him? "I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." 5. In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice.

Replacement Theology

Its Origins, Teachings and Errors

By Dr. Gary Hedrick, President of CJF Ministries

(With Minor Editing By Rabbi Loren)



These are serious errors/deformations in your Theology and Worldview. What do you have to say for yourself. You gibber on and on about being persecuted yet you, yourself; are the persecuter. You lie about the Jews and their Sacred scriptures and you attempt to steal their identity and destiny, without being able to read/write Hebrew. Your ignorance and hubris is appalling Capiche? thumbs up

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:30 pm

Zion/Zionism thumbs up



Some theologies, e.g., ancient Epicureanism and modern Deism, believe in a god, or gods, but think they have nothing much to do with the world in which we live. Others, like Stoicism, believe that god, or “the divine,” or “the sacred” is simply a dimension of our world, so that “god” and the world end up being pretty much the same thing. Both of these can give birth to practical or theoretical atheism. The first can let its “god” get so far away that he disappears. This is what happened with Marx and Feuerbach in the nineteenth century, allowing the “absentee landlord” of eighteenth-century Deism to become simply an absentee. The second can get so used to various “gods” around the place that it ceases to care much about them. This is what happened with a good deal of ancient paganism in Greece and Rome, until, as Pliny wryly remarks, the arrival of Christianity stirred up pagans to a fresh devotion to their gods.[9]

The Jews believed in a quite different “god.” This god, YHWH, “the One Who Is,” the Sovereign One, was not simply the objectification of forces and drives within the world, but was the maker of all that exists. Several biblical books, or parts thereof, are devoted to exploring the difference between YHWH and the pagan idols: Daniel, Isaiah 40-55, and a good many Psalms spring obviously to mind. The theme is summed up in the Jewish daily prayer: “YHWH our God, YHWH is one!”[10]

Classic Jewish monotheism, then, believed that (a) there was one God, who created heaven and earth and who remained in close and dynamic relation with his creation; and that (b) this God had called Israel to be his special people. This twin belief, tested to the limit and beyond through Israel’s checkered career, was characteristically expressed through a particular narrative: the chosen people were also the rescued people, liberated from slavery in Egypt, marked out by the gift of Torah, established in their land, exiled because of disobedience, but promised a glorious return and final settlement. Jewish-style monotheism meant living in this story and trusting in this one true God, the God of creation and covenant, of Exodus and Return.

This God was utterly different from the pantheist’s “one god.” This is an important point to note: many, including many scholars, have blithely assumed that because Stoics and others talked about “one god” they were saying the same thing as the Jews. This God was also utterly different from the far-away ultra-transcendent gods of the Epicureans. Always active within his world, did he not feed the young ravens when they called upon him?[11]—he could be trusted to act more specifically on behalf of Israel. His eventual overthrow of pagan power at the political would be the revelation of his overthrow of the false gods of the nations. His vindication of his people, liberating them finally from all their oppressors, would also be the vindication of his own name and reputation. In justifying his people, he would himself be justified. In his righteousness, his covenant faithfulness, they would find their own.

This monotheism was never, in our period, an inner analysis of the being of the one God. It was always a way of saying, frequently at great risk: our God is the true God, and your gods are worthless idols. It was a way of holding on to hope. We can see the dynamic of this monotheism working its way out in the manifold crises of second-temple Judaism, with the Maccabees, Judas the Galilean, and above all the two wars of the late 60s and early 130s A.D. revealing how the creational and covenantal theology and worldview remained at work through the period and in different groups.

This God was both other than the world and continually active within it. The words “transcendent” and “immanent,” we should note, are pointers to this double belief, but do not clarify it much. Because this God is thus simultaneously other than his people and present with them, Jews of Jesus’ day had developed several ways of speaking about the activity of this God in which they attempted to hold together, because they dared not separate, these twin truths. Emboldened by deep-rooted traditions, they explored what appears to us a strange, swirling sense of a rhythm of mutual relations within the very being of the one God: a to-and-fro, a give-and-take, a command-and-obey, a sense of love poured out and love received. God’s Spirit broods over the waters, God’s Word goes forth to produce new life, God’s Law guides his people, God’s Presence or Glory dwells with them in fiery cloud, in tabernacle and temple. These four ways of speaking moved to and fro from metaphor to trembling reality-claim and back again. They enabled Jews to speak simultaneously of God’s sovereign supremacy and his intimate presence, of his unapproachable holiness and his self-giving compassionate love.

Best known of all is perhaps a fifth. God’s Wisdom is his handmaid in creation, the firstborn of his works, his chief of staff, his delight. God’s Wisdom is another way of talking about God present with his people in the checkered careers of the patriarchs and particularly in the events of the Exodus. Wisdom becomes closely aligned thereby with Torah and Shekinah.[12] Through the Lady Wisdom of Proverbs 1-8, the creator has fashioned everything, especially the human race. To embrace Wisdom is therefore to discover the secret of being truly human, of reflecting God’s image.[13]............................Out of all this, I have argued in various places that we can, as historians, properly reconstruct Jesus of Nazareth’s sense of vocation. We can study John the Baptist’s vocation, and Paul’s: why should we not study Jesus’? When we do so, we find that dozens and dozens of lines of inquiry converge to produce a well ordered, coherent, historically credible sense of vocation, emerging in central symbolic actions, hinted at in a hundred cryptic and teasing sayings. Jesus believed he was Israel’s Messiah, the one in whom Israel’s history was to be summed up. Jesus believed he would win the messianic victory over the real enemy and would build the true messianic temple through taking Israel’s fate upon himself and going to the cross. Jesus believed that in doing so he was not just pointing to or talking about, but was actually embodying, the return of YHWH to Zion. These, though striking and startling, emerge from the world of Second Temple Judaism like the flower growing suddenly out of the plant. They were not expected, but upon inspection this is where they belonged. All the elements of the package were around somewhere in the culture. They are not, repeat not, a retrojection of later Christian theology, not even of later NT theology, which by and large developed in other legitimate ways. They are only credible, but they are totally credible, as the historically reconstructed mindset of Jesus himself. And they form, not the substance of later atonement and incarnational theology, but its historical starting point.


I have argued elsewhere that a central feature of Jewish expectation, and kingdom expectation at that, in Jesus’ time was the hope that YHWH would return in person to Zion. Having abandoned Jerusalem at the time of the exile, his return was delayed, but he would come back at last. Within this context, someone who told cryptic stories about a king or a master who went away, left his servants with tasks to perform, and then returned to see how they were getting on must—not “might,” must point to this controlling, over-arching metanarrative. Of course, the later Church, forgetting the first century Jewish context, read such stories as though they were originally about Jesus himself going away and then returning in a “second coming.” Of course, cautious scholars noticing this, deny that Jesus would have said such things. I propose that here at the heart of Jesus’ work, and at the moment of its climax, Jesus not only told stories about the king, who came back to Zion to judge and to save. He acted as though he thought the stories were coming true in what he himself was accomplishing. This is the context, at last, in which I think it best to approach the question with which this essay began.........................................And Jesus seems to have believed it about himself. The language was deeply coded, but the symbolic action was not. He was coming to Zion, doing what YHWH had promised to do. He explained his action with riddles all pointing in the same direction. Recognize this, and you start to see it all over the place, especially in parables and actions whose other layers have preoccupied us. Why, after all, does Jesus tell a story about a yearning father in order to account for his own behavior?[36] It is this that also accounts for his sovereign attitude to Torah, his speaking on behalf of Wisdom, and his announcement of forgiveness of sins.[37] By themselves none of these would be conclusive. Even if they are allowed to stand as words and actions of Jesus, they remain cryptic. But predicate them of the same young man who is then on his way to Jerusalem to confront the powers that be with the message and the action of the kingdom of God and who tells stories as he does which are best interpreted as stories of YHWH returning to Zion, then you have reached. I believe, the deep heart of Jesus’ own sense of vocation. He believed himself called to do and be what in the scriptures only Israel’s God did and was.

..................................What are we therefore saying about the earthly Jesus? In Jesus himself, I suggest we see the biblical portrait of YHWH come to life: the loving God, rolling up his sleeves (Isa 52:10) to do in person the job that no one else could do, the creator God giving new life the God who works through his created world and supremely through his human creatures, the faithful God dwelling in the midst of his people, the stern and tender God relentlessly opposed to all that destroys or distorts the good creation, and especially human beings, but recklessly loving all those in need and distress. “He shall feed his flock like a shepherd; he shall carry the lambs in his arms; and gently lead those that are with young” (Isa 40:11). It is the OT portrait of YHWH, but it fits Jesus like a glove. ...............

Apparently you don't know shit about 'ZION'.
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The Kingdom of Elohim is represented by Tsiyon (pronounced Tsee-yone or Zion in English), a literal place in Jerusalem, that symbolizes a spiritual place, the seat of Mashiyach's government on this earth. Originally Zion was a small location in Jerusalem, then it became a code name for the whole city of Jerusalem.

For it is said in the Scripture, “Behold, in Tsiyon I lay a chosen and precious stone for the head of the corner; and whoever believes in him will not be ashamed.” On you therefore who believe is this honor conferred: but to them who do not believe “he is a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.” And they stumble at it because they believe not the Word from where they were appointed. But you are an elect race, officiating as priests of the Kingdom; a Set Apart people, a redeemed congregation; that you should proclaim the praises of him who called you out of darkness to his precious light: who formerly were not counted as a people but now are the people of Elohim; and also, there were (once) no mercies on you but now mercies are poured out upon you. My beloved, I entreat you as strangers and pilgrims, separate yourselves from all lusts of the body, for they war against the soul. And let your behavior be honorable before all men; so that they who utter evil speeches against you, may see your good actions and may praise Elohim in the day of trial. And be submissive to all the sons of men, for Elohim’s sake; to kings, on account of their authority; and to judges because they are sent by him for the punishment of offenders, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of Elohim, that by your good deeds you may stop the mouth of the foolish who do not know Elohim: As free men, you are not like men who make their freedom a cloak for their wickedness, but as the servants of Elohim. 1 Peter 2:6-16

Throughout Scripture we read of a Kingdom that is not of this earth, but it is shaped from the pattern that is in Heaven. The tabernacle in the wilderness was built according to the specifications that YHWH gave to Moses and within that tabernacle, each of the physical elements are symbols of the spiritual or heavenly Kingdom. It is also interesting to note that Zion is mentioned in 153 verses in the Tanakh... this is the same number of fish the disciples caught in John 21:11. The symbolism is clear, Yeshua taught his disciples how to build the Kingdom of Heaven, as opposed to a religion "about" the Kingdom of Heaven, a very big difference.

We are being trained to know what Tsiyon is, and what it is not. No religion or people's groups have exclusive rights to Tsiyon, it belongs to the people of Mashiyach regardless of religion, race, color or creed. The Government of Tsiyon is on the shoulder of Mashiyach. Mashiyach is returning to the Mount of Olives from whence he departed, but this time round Scripture tells us he will be Mashiyach Ben David a much different scenario than when he first came to earth.

There is the Israel of Elohim (spiritual) and there is the other kingdom of Israel of the flesh. Not all who are Israel of the flesh are the Israel of Elohim. If we can look at Jews, Christians or Muslims without judging them by their religion or race, then we are getting closer to ZION, as how it is revealed in Mashiyach. The Kingdom of Elohim is a government, NOT a religion.

Tsiyon is also the place in our neshama (spirit) where we connect with Mashiyach where our heart receives and gives love for all of Creation, where we can see all others through the eyes of Mashiyach and carry no prejudice towards anyone. The Kingdom is within us, it is not an external government or religion.

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You're claim that Israel is an insignificant strip of sand illuminates your ignorance. Israel is the Left/Western Arm of the fertile Crescent..........the Israelites have even made the southern desert areas bloom due to hard work, a foreign concept to you. thumbs up


What is Zionism?
Zionism is the political movement that is implementing the national liberation of the Jewish people. It is based on the assertion that the Jewish people, like any other people, has the right to self-determination; Jews have a right to a national home in their historic homeland. Zionism has made a reality of the "impossible" project of restoration of the Jewish people to our homeland, after nearly 2,000 years of exile. The work of Zionism is far from complete, however.

Zionism has always been a part of Judaism
The ideological and cultural foundations of Zionism have always been present in Jewish tradition. Jews always thought of themselves as a nation or people. The concept of "am Yisrael" - the "people of Israel" or "nation of Israel," has been inherent in Jewish culture from ancient times. Jewish cultural and religious life always centered around the land of Israel. This did not change during two millennia of dispersion.

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:31 pm

The Promised Land! [/b][/size][/color][/font] thumbs up

Israel is the Promised Land, NOT Australia. thumbs up




by Prof. Shalom Rosenberg

50b: Sleeping Beauty, part 2

In Bereshit we read of the significant encounter between Avraham and Malkitzedek, king of Shalem. According to the biblical commentator Moshe David Cassuto, the Torah intends to convey "that Jerusalem was a holy city. [This was] an eternal holiness, extending since time immemorial, and even when it was populated by idol worshippers, who were accustomed to worshipping many gods, its inhabitants could not but worship their highest God," who is essentially identical to the one God of Scriptural monotheism.

Rashi gleans something else from this encounter. Our rights to the land are not the result of a divine promise accompanied by military conquest. Our Sages emphasized our "historical rights" to the land. Rashi describes how the children of Shem lived in the Land according to the original division among the sons of Noach, and how "the Canaanites were conquering the land of Israel from the children of Shem." On the background of this unjust conquest, which destroyed the original harmony between the peoples of the world, Avraham, a descendent of Shem, appears upon the stage of history. He meets with one of the last Shemite kings of Jerusalem, before they were destroyed by the Jebusites. This was Malkitzedek king of Shalem (Bereshit 14:18-20): "And Malkitzedek king of Shalem brought out bread and wine, and he was a priest of the highest God. And he blessed him and said, blessed is Avraham of the highest God, ruler of heaven and earth." In this encounter, the last remaining Shemite monotheistic priest meets Avraham and prophesies, "[God] will someday return [Jerusalem] to your children, who are the descendants of Shem" (Rashi, on Bereshit 12:6).

The Rambam teaches an additional unique aspect of Jerusalem. In his "Guide For The Perplexed" [3,45] he suggests that Jerusalem is referred to in the Bible as "the place which He will choose," without calling it explicitly by name, for political reasons. The name of the place was hidden so that "the nations would not hold onto it and fight a powerful war over it, as they would if they knew that this place on earth was the source of the Torah." Sadly, this attempt did not help, and the struggles over Jerusalem continue to this day. Political struggles have a mechanism of their own. In Jerusalem, a religious struggle exists as well.

The Jewish people return to their land with a demand for justice that is beyond law. No one disputes the spiritual ownership of other religions. This is one of the great tests of humanity. Will they recognize the rights of the father who has returned to life and to youth, to live in his own land?

Jerusalem was conquered by Christians and by Muslims. However, Jerusalem is holy to the Jews not because of an event that occurred in it, nor because of a building in it, but because of very essence. The Temple could burn down, foreign temples could be built in its place, and yet the connection with the land remains, as though nothing has changed. Thus, the Jewish people mourned over Jerusalem, and thus Rihal expressed the longing of Jerusalem for its people:

"Zion, will you not inquire after your prisoners who inquire after you, and are the remnant of your flock...
I cry endless tears to bewail your suffering, and when I dream of the return of your exiles, I am a violin for your songs."

Whoever has read Mark Twain's description of the parched land, so barren that he felt this could not possibly be the land of which the Bible speaks, understands what the renewal and rebirth of the land means.

The Ramban saw the double tragedy as the symbol of the deepest expression of the love between the people and the land. The nation could not rest peacefully in any other place in the world, and the land would not bear fruit for any foreign conqueror. It patiently awaited the return of its people.


by Prof. Shalom Rosenberg

51a: The Land of Israel

The Paradox

We will now reopen our discussion of the uniqueness of the Land of Israel, the great paradox we have been living since the birth of Judaism in the first pages of the Scriptures. Before God there are no political or geographical boundaries, there are no boundaries of nations or of countries. And yet, the great message of this universalism is expressed in two particularisms, two uniquenesses: the uniqueness of the People and the uniqueness of the Land. The paradox teaches us that uniqueness is the path to universalism. The uniqueness of the Jewish people is part of a plan that will lead us and the nations of the world to the end of days, a plan for the redemption of the entire world. In this plan, the descendants of the Forefathers hold a unique place and position.

This paradox was a focal point of constant debate with many thinkers, particularly those who have stemmed from Judaism and have accepted some of the general principles of our Torah. The Scriptures proclaimed that Avraham would become the father of many nations.
And indeed, many nations have accepted the Torah of the Forefathers. However, many of them wished to accept these principles while erasing the name of the Jews. Sometimes this was done by actual killing of Jews, and generally it was done by stealing their identity, by claiming that they themselves are the true Jewish people.

The paradox of uniqueness demands an explanation from within as well. Rihal uses biological and climatic models to explain his central thesis. In my opinion, the reader has a certain amount of freedom here. He can accept these explanations as they are, or he can suggest corrections that lift these explanations to a higher plane. Rihal attempts to analyze a difficult and central issue, but he lacks the tools for the job. He saw the biological and climatic theories as models to explain his reality. Thus, for example, Rihal used the fact that certain traits are present in the grandfather, disappear in the father and reappear in the third generation.

In this way, Rihal wished to convey the surprising idea that traits can reappear despite an apparent break in continuity and education: that there can be resurrection after surcease. What Rihal describes is a return to something that does not come from without but that already exists within. The biological model is wonderful, because it demonstrates that potential can exist, for example in genetic makeup, and not be expressed outwardly. The difference in genetics between a genotype and a phenotype is the difference between uniqueness and choseness. There are traits that remain hidden because of the environment in which the organism develops; however the genotype, the uniqueness, the inner potential, continues to exist. This description is true of the nation as well. This is the essence of the principle of eternal uniqueness in the philosophies of Rihal, the Maharal and Rav Kook.


This topic brings us to the place of territory in Jewish thought. We are better equipped, thank God, to discuss this question than previous generations, who read Rihal's philosophy regarding the land of Israel yet were severed from it. Here in the land of Israel we face the full significance of Rihal's writings on the subject, as well as the difficult dilemmas that the topic raises.

One can view the land of Israel as the place where the Jewish state resides. This is an instrumental view, in which territory becomes a vehicle. Like a house, a country is a place in which we live, and it constitutes, in the largest sense of the word, a vehicle, a tool necessary for our survival. This is a rational approach, and stands as one the principles of Zionism. This principle implies that Jewish existence in the Diaspora was abnormal and unhealthy, and that the nation must be healed and rehabilitated through Zionism. This can be compared to a cripple who has lost the use of his hands and legs, and who hopes for the return of their powers. The hands and legs represent the two central characteristics of political existence in an independent state. The hands represent the nation's ability to defend itself militarily, while the legs symbolize the connection to the territory. If we were to go in this direction we would reach the territorial basis necessary for the justification of the Zionist idea, and seemingly this would be enough. However, here we must learn the great lesson of the Kuzari.

Let us jump to the end of the book. At the end of the book, the Chaver bids farewell to the king and prepares to journey to the land of Israel. "After these events the Chaver decided to leave the land of the Khazars and journey to Jerusalem." The king is astonished:
"And the departure of the Chaver was difficult for the Kuzari and he spoke to him of it, saying, 'what is there to find in the land of Israel today, since the Holy Presence has left it? And since the closeness of God can be achieved in any location by a pure heart and a strong desire; and why should you place yourself at the peril of the deserts and the seas and the hatred of the various peoples?'" (5:22)

This question of the Kuzari king must amaze us. Since the very first discourse, Rihal has emphasized the significance of the Land of Israel. His journey to the Land of Israel is the necessary and logical result of all he has been saying and writing. If so, why is the Kuzari king surprised? The answer lies in the recognition of a paradox, which is expressed at the end of the book, and sheds a different light upon the entire book. The Chaver had built a Jewish state in the land of the Khazars! Not only that, but his place in that state is comparable to the role of the philosopher, who guides the king in his leadership of the ideal kingdom. We can understand the significance of this ideal state when we read the letter that Hasdai Ibn Shaprut wrote to the Kuzari king.

He writes:
"If there is a place where there is a beacon and a kingdom for the exiles of Israel and they are not tyrannized or controlled, and if I knew that this was true, I would despise my own honor and depart from my greatness and desert my family and would speedily go up mountains, over land or sea, until I would reach the place where my lord the king rules to see his greatness and his glory and the residence of his subjects and the superiority of his servants and the repose of the exiles of Israel. And upon seeing his greatness and glory, my eyes would alight and my innards rejoice and my lips would praise the One who had not withheld His bounty from my forlorn nation."

Hasdai Ibn Shaprut, the Jewish minister of the highest personal and political status in the Caliphate in Cordova, claims that he would abandon all of his honor and become a simple subject in the Jewish state in which the Jews have independence. This state has religious significance as well:
"For how can I bleed for the destruction of our glorious House and for the few saved from the sword who went through fire and water, who are but a small remainder and have lost our honor and dwell in exile, and God does not assist us against those who say to us all the day, 'every nation has a kingdom and you have no remembrance in the land.'"

And a Jewish state exists, the kingdom of the Khazars. However, Rihal instructs us through the paradox of his own life and choices. The Chaver abandons a Jewish state, nobility, independence and everything that goes along with it, in order to travel to a place that is under foreign rule. This place is the Land of Israel. Here we learn the great lesson. Our attitude towards the Land of Israel is not one of territory, in which, by chance, a Jewish state exists. We relate to it as our destiny, and view the encounter with it as part of our essence as Jews. Jewish sovereignty and independence are significant, but so is our relationship to the Land of Israel. At the end of the book we will learn how Rihal envisioned the ultimate return to the Land of Israel and the redemption. Herein lies the mystery and the paradox. The return to the Land of Israel is not a tool or a means. What we have here is here a relationship of encounter, a cosmic meeting of those intended for each other from the beginning of time. Just as it is written that every person's marriage partner is announced in Heaven forty days before his birth, so too it is announced that a particular field in the Land is intended for a particular person. Our Sages wished to teach us the romantic idea that the connection between a couple exists before they meet for the first time, and that their meeting is not a chance occurrence. So too the relationship between the People and the Land is more than a chance occurrence. The relationship was written in the books of destiny.
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by Prof. Shalom Rosenberg

51b: The Land Of Israel, Part 2

What mysterious force lies behind the relationship of the People and the Land? What makes a particular union successful and unique? Here we enter into theories and models. Rihal attempts to describe it through a unique approach to the climate of the Land of Israel. We find a similar approach in the writings of Rambam. However, he limits the explanation, when he claims that this climate is not unique to the Land but characterizes the entire region. This is actually stated explicitly by Rihal:

"And Ever was the designated progeny of Shem...since his inheritance was the lands of comfortable climates, at the center of which is placed the coveted land, the land of Canaan, the land of prophecy." (1:95)

Thus, we find that the climatic condition is necessary but not sufficient. The Land of Israel is unique in that its climate integrates heat and cold. In other words, it unites the characteristics of those places lacking the conditions for creating a great civilization and a sophisticated culture. And indeed, both the inception and the development of civilization took place in the temperate climates.

Beyond the geographical conditions there is a mystical reality, a spiritual uniqueness of the Land, which makes it a place where prophecy can become a reality. The Land of Israel is the destined location of the ultimate encounter between the Jewish nation and God, the place destined for prophecy and redemption.

This approach to the Land of Israel perhaps can only be understood in categories of love. A person can consider a prospective mate according to the size of the dowry or other monetary interests, as a means to advance one's career or one's social status, etc. These are purely rational reasons. However, we all know that this is not enough, and justifiably so. Beyond these things we expect something more, something irrational and emotional, something we can only describe as love. The word love describes the relationship between the People and the Land. The book of Bereshit describes how the Great Matchmaker, the Creator himself, took Avraham, the father of the Jewish nation, and brought him to the Land of Israel. There he would found his nation, and there the great encounter between the Jewish people and God will ultimately take place. The encounter between the People and the Land is also a condition of redemption.

Thank God, for us no contradiction exists between the instrumental approach and what we might term the romantic approach. We must realize how fortunate we are, to live in the age where, after so much trial and suffering, these approaches finally merge. The distinction between the two approaches to the People and the Land was illustrated through a historical dilemma: Uganda or Palestine? The instrumental approach demanded searching for territory somewhere. This was called the territorial position. It was opposed by the position that spoke about the Land of Israel. Both approaches are important, and the Kuzari state and the other Jewish states that arose in the Diaspora were not a crime, but neither did they bring salvation. There were many Jews who did not think it a crime to live in the Diaspora but who considered the creation of a Jewish state in the Diaspora a betrayal of their allegiance to the Land of Israel.

These issues are important because of their current implications. We are faced with dilemmas that center around the ideals of the redemption of the People and of the Land. We will not enter into politics here. Politics means solving these dilemmas in a particular way. However, understanding the dilemmas is beyond politics. We must always be aware of the two-sidedness of our relationship to the Land. On the one hand, the instrumental relationship to a home, and on the other hand, the relationship to something that cannot be replaced. This relationship is represented in the Scriptures and in later literature by the classic image of the relationship to a mother. The Land is perceived as a mother to some individuals, and as a wife to the nation. We express this relationship through loyalty, love and respect.

The Land of Israel

As we have seen, the content of Jewish thought focuses around three central points: Creation, Revelation and Redemption. History is a process with many twists and turns; however, it ultimately leads us from Creation to Redemption through Revelation.

The Land of Israel symbolizes creation. The Land of Israel is also the land of prophecy.

The sacrifice of Yitzchak connects to the second point: Revelation. Just as Avraham was called to the Land of Israel from a foreign country, "Go ... to the land that I will show you" (Bereshit 12:1), so too he is called forth after entering the Land of Israel: "Go ... to one of the mountains that I will show you" (ibid. 22:2).

Here, too, Avraham follows the call to a place that he does not know, and only when he reaches it does God inform him that this is the place that God had destined for the great drama of the sacrifice of Isaac. Avraham's going reveals the holiness within the holiness. Avraham learned to recognize the holiness of the Land of Israel when he reached it. The holiness of Jerusalem had to be revealed much later, at the final trial.

The mount of the sacrifice, say the Scriptures, is the "mountain where God appeared," the place of revelation, the encounter with God. On this mountain the Temple will be built, the Temple in which man will encounter the Divine Presence. The Scriptures themselves are aware of the paradox in this claim. In king Shlomo's prayer in the Book of Melakhim we read,
"For can it be that God resides on the earth, behold the heavens and the highest firmaments cannot contain You, how can this House I have built [contain You]?" (Melakhim I, 8:27)

However, divine transcendence left room also for the immanence that is connected to "this place...and You will hearken from the heavens" (ibid. 8:29-32).

Revelation is expressed in two ways: in the personal encounter, and in the collective revelation of the Torah. Next to the Temple sat the Great Court, whose role was to teach Torah to the entire people of Israel.

The third point that is encompassed in Jerusalem is connected to the future: the Redemption. This idea means the triumph of good in the various circles of human activity: the national, the human-universal and the cosmic.

The national redemption is the return of the Jewish people to their Land. When the Jew prays for redemption, he prays to the God who "will rebuild Jerusalem," and adds, "may our eyes witness Your merciful return to Jerusalem. Blessed are You God, who will return His Presence to Zion." The redemption is the renewed meeting of the three: the People, the Land and the Divine Presence, the divine immanence.

Jerusalem is also the axle upon which the human-universal redemption turns as well. The mountain that was the center of spiritual heights for the Jewish people will become a center of inspiration and education for the entire world.

"And in the end of days the mount of the house of God will be placed above all mountains and rise above all hills and all the nations will swarm towards it. And many nations will go saying, come let us go up to the mountain of God, to the House of the God of Ya'akov, and He will teach us of His ways and we will follow in His paths, for Torah will go forth from Zion and the word of God from Jerusalem." (Yishayahu 2:2-3)

The particularism of the choosing of a People and a Land are thus merged with absolute universalism. The People and the Land preserved the Torah, so that it would spread among all the nations, and whose central expression is universal peace: "And they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks, nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they study war any more" (ibid. 2:4).

In Jewish tradition, Jerusalem is also the center of the cosmic redemption. Yishayahu's vision, "and the wolf shall dwell with the lamb" (Yishayahu 11:6) is obviously an allegory for the ideal international relations that will reign in the messianic era. However, it is also a hint at a religious utopia, in which even the natural reality will change.

Various verses in Yechezkel hint at future changes in Jerusalem. A spring will gush from it, and from it powerful rivers will stream forth, which will even heal the Dead Sea. Clearly, these are references to the ancient Garden of Eden.

And indeed certain commentators have understood it in this way. According to their interpretation, the Garden that God planted in Eden underwent a catastrophic change as a result of the sin; however, with the advent of the redemption it will revert to its original state. The Garden of Eden is the Land of Israel, and its center is Jerusalem.

If this motif exists in the Scriptural tradition, then the symbolism of the Holy Temple can be understood in its light as well. At its center, as in the Garden of Eden, the Keruvim protected the Tree of Life, which is none other than the Torah - the word of God
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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:31 pm

The History in the Hebrew Bible was written in an alephbet BEFORE the Greeks had an Alphabet. thumbs up If you would actually bother to read it, it includes all Humankind and the whole world. As provided below. thumbs up

Check it out, see for yourself. If anyone would like to debate me, sign in. Lilly, the Queen of Bullshit ignores all the Archaeological, Linguistic and Historical evidence and just makes shit up. thumbs down

26And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the livestock, and over all the earth and over all the creeping creatures that creep on the earth.”

27And Elohim created the man in His image, in the image of Elohim He created him – male and female He created them.

28And Elohim blessed them, and Elohim said to them, “Bear fruit and increase, and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over all creatures moving on the earth.”

29And Elohim said, “See, I have given you every plant that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed, to you it is for food.

30“And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the heavens, and to every creeping creature on the earth, in which there is life, every green plant is for food.” And it came to be so. 31And Elohim saw all that He had made, and see, it was very good

Tzelem Elokim=Humankind as Image of YHWH/God

1: Has Intelligence

2: Has Freewill

3: Has component of Spiritual Being-A Soul

4: HaShem/YHWH Rules the Universe and Spirit World, Humans have dominion over the Lower World.

5: Has the faculty of Judgement

6: Has an inherent Holiness and Dignity

As created in the image of God, humans are endowed with "three intrinsic dignities": infinite value, equality, and uniqueness.

The first means that human life cannot be weighed, measured, or compared in terms of, that is, subordinated to, any other value. In the Kantian Parlance humans are always a goal or end in themselves and never a means to something else.

The second term implies that no person or group is privileged over another. In fact, Idolatry results when a person or group absolutizes itself or its message.

The third idea reinforces the dignity of every human by insisting that each person is irreplaceable and has a special role to play in the redemption of the world.

The Jewish religion is founded on the divine assurance and human belief that the world will be perfected." Judaism engages with and seeks to overcome these realities of history through its notion of covenant. The covenant is that dynamic which God inaugurated in history, that partnership between God and the Jewish people, to achieve the dignities for which all humans were created. Jews are those teachers, models, and co-workers-having both a divine and human partners - whom God designated to help all persons and even nature achieve redemption. For Greenberg, the messianic dream of perfection will not be realized by divine fiat, but by "improving this world, one step at a time."

These understandings of God, humans, and the world are expressed through the Torah and lived-out by the Jewish people through the Holy days and the Halakhah. In this view, Torah is that divine teaching which stands as "the constitution of the ongoing relationship of God and the Jewish people." Rabbi Greenberg

This expanded view/articulation of higher values help us to search for YHWHs presence in the secular Realms of Life, some peeps call this: 'Holy Secularism'.

The Covenant is essentially a Divine, Loving, Pedagogic process. As Humans become more competent, YHWH invites them to take up a more active role in the Task of Tikkun Olam/World to Come, as Co-Creators.

The lay people of YHWH/God play a more influential role in discerning Yahwehs purpose and in carrying out His Divine Mandates.

Later, ensuing Historical events reshape understandings of earlier Teachings.


We=ALL Living things-creatures-sustained and Nurtured by Yahweh-will fill the World with Life.

* We will reshape the Historical Reality, the Flesh & Blood world we inhabit, to sustain that Life at the highest possible level.

* Life will multiply and triumph Quantitatively over all its enemies; including Entropy, Death, and Disorder.

* Life will equally triumph Qualitatively.

* All of Lifes’ capacities/potentials will be developed fully and realized.

* When Life blossoms to its fullest capacity that treats all Life, especially Human Life-the most developed form-and sustains it with the highest and fullest respect that it deserves, then Life will be in harmony with existence and deeply related to Yahweh, its Source and Sustainer(Natural Laws)

* This is the Jews Story, and by default; the Christians/Xns.

* Telling the Story of Creation is the Jews 'Witness'. The present evidentiary Facts contradict the Narrative fairly substantialy.

* Yet, This Story of Creation is shared by Jews and Christians

* This Story leads Humans to see existence as best they can, from a Cosmic Perspective-Sub Specie Aeternitatis.

* From that Vantage Point there are Three Grand Movements in the unfolding Pattern of the Cosmos

1: The World is moving from Chaos to Order. From the Big Bang, with no Laws of Nature to the regularity of the Life sustaining Laws of Nature.

2: The World is moving from Non-Life to Life. From a State in which no life existed to the emergence of Life. From one cell, untold replications, life has grown Quantitatively, and developed Qualitatively. It has luxuriated and spread into a vast range of forms over and through a variety of sustaining conditions/environments.

* The declaration that Life is growing, moving from non-life to life is counter-intuitive.
Death & Entropy refute that contention.

The 'Key' is YHWH/God-The Hidden, Infinite Source of Life with limitless Goodness, Love and Power that sustains Life and Nurtures every possible Form of Life into Being.

* YHWH, the Divine Source evokes the Third Grand Movement of the Cosmos

3: Life is growing ever more to resemble its Ground: YHWH

Life moves from being less to becoming more and more like Yahweh. The highest form of Life, the Human Being, represents the High Point reached thus far.

In Human Form, life so resembles its Maker that it is called; Biblically; 'The Image of God'

* This emergence of "The Image of God" is the Turning Point in Cosmic History according to Jews & Christians.

Up to that point Life has been sworn to 'Be Fruitful & Multiply' (maximizing reproductive success) through a built-in control Programme-A 'Selfish Gene'- that drives the process.

* The 'Image of God' Consciousness is so much like YHWHs that Humans are able to 'grasp' this overall pattern of which we, ourselves are part, and to join voluntarily in its realization.

* Similarly, the Human 'Image of YHWH/God has a capacity to Love ALL their fellow creatures and every aspect of the Universe, as well as the Maker of it all and the Beauty of the Plan.

* Once Humans understand and embrace this understanding, they will lovingly identify with and willingly participate in the process of Perfection.

* YHWH has invited us, as Humans, The 'Image of God', to enter into a Covenantal Partnership, committed to Love, to join fully in perfecting the Universe.

Tikkun Olam

* The People of Israel joyfully acknowledge that YHWHs first Covenant, the Noahide Covenant, never superseded, is made with ALL Humanity, not exclusively with Jews and/or Christians alone.

* It is made with ALL Sentient Beings.

* ALL Beings are called to recognize and participate in Natures Patterns.

* To accept Limits.

* To Direct their choices and actions in favour of Life.

* To join in working for Order against Chaos.

* We are ALL CHOSEN to become part of the movement from Non-Life to Life.

* We are commanded to increase Life and make it grow ever more like its Maker.

* The purpose of the Religious way of life is to create the nurturing ambience of memory and experience, of relationships and actions that sustain Human growth and turns it towards Yahweh.

* Being in the 'Image of God/YHWH brings with it more God like capacities. It bestows intrinsic Dignity, a climatic extension of that respect to which all of life is entitled.

* The People of Israel hold these Truths to be self-evident: That ALL Humans are created in 'The Image of YHWH/God; and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, among which are:

* Infinite Value

* Equality

* Uniqueness.

These are Birthrights of every Son & Daughter of Yahweh

The Sinai Event was the ultimate Social Engineering event.
The Torah is the first, and oldest Religious Book written in an Alephbet/ Alphabet........this alters the hegemony of the Brain to being left hemispherical centric=Abstract, linear and sequential. the ground for Theoretical Science....

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:32 pm


Lecture 58: Psalm 122 – "Pray for the peace of Jerusalem" (Part I)

(1) A Song of Ascents of David.

1 I was glad when they said to me:

We are going to the house of the Lord.

(2) Our feet were standing

within your gates, O Jerusalem.

(3) Jerusalem that is built.

It is like a city that is united together.

2 (4) For the tribes went up there, the tribes of the Lord,

a testimony to Israel, to give thanks to the name of the Lord.

(5) For there they sat on thrones for judgment,

the thrones of the house of David.

3 (6) Pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

May they prosper who love you.

(7) May peace be within your walls,

prosperity within your palaces.

4 (Cool For my brothers' and companions' sakes

may I now say: Peace be within you.

(9) For the sake of the house of the Lord our God,

I will seek your good.

I was a still a youngster during the Six Day War. On the third day of the war, which fell out on Wednesday, 28 Iyar 5727, the shelling of Jerusalem abated and we left our bomb shelter and went home. During the afternoon, while listening to reports about the fighting coming from the old, massive radio in our house, the program suddenly stopped, and in a tremulous voice the broadcaster announced that the Old City of Jerusalem had been liberated. Twice, the broadcaster repeated the announcement, and silence fell upon our house.

Immediately following his announcement, the broadcaster read psalm 122 in the book of Tehillim: "Our feet were standing within your gates, O Jerusalem. Jerusalem that is built. It is like a city that is united together," and I was sure that the psalm had been specially written in the book of Tehillim for this exalted moment. This was followed by the playing of Naomi Shemer's "Jerusalem of Gold," which we had first heard three weeks earlier on the night following Yom Ha-Atzma'ut. It was clear to me that the song was composed in anticipation of the liberation of Jerusalem, in order to stir up yearnings in our heart for the city that had been taken captive and swallowed up by the Arab legions.

Rarely does a chapter of Scripture enjoy current significance as sharply as at that moment. This is the force of the psalms of Tehillim; even though they had been written for their own time and their own place, readers across the generations have found in them expressions of their own sentiments, even when these expressions do not accord with the plain meaning of the psalm.

In anticipation of 28 Iyar, Jerusalem Liberation Day, forty-three years following the event described above, I wish to return to psalm 122 in order to examine it for its own sake, to understand the plain meaning of its verses, to properly divide it into stanzas, to recognize its structure, and from all this, to grasp its unique message. But whether I want to or not, all of this literary analysis will perforce be carried out under the impressions left by the youthful experiences that I had along with the rest of the members of that generation.


A general question can be raised regarding our psalm: what is the historical-social reality that gave rise to it? Put differently, What are the circumstances in which or for which our psalm was composed?

This psalm is one of the few psalms in the book of Tehillim regarding which the body of the psalm seems to be ill-suited to its heading. The heading reads, "A Song of Ascents of David,"[1] whereas the body of the psalm describes a pilgrimage to the house of the Lord and the tribes going up to Jerusalem. As we all know, David did not build God's Temple, and thus in his time the tribes did not go up three times a year to the place that God chose. Moreover, the psalm describes Jerusalem as the place of "the thrones of the house of David," implying that the descendants of David were already sitting on the royal throne in Jerusalem.

This contradiction appears to underlie R. Yehoshua ben Levi's words in Makkot (10a):

R. Yehoshua ben Levi said: What is that which is written: "A Song of Ascents of David. I was glad when they said to me: We are going to the house of the Lord"? David said before the Holy One, blessed be He: Master of the universe, I have heard people saying, ‘When will this old man die, so that his son Shlomo will come and build the Temple and we will go on pilgrimage,’ and I was glad.

According to this, "I was glad" is David's reaction to the things he heard the members of his generation saying about him: "[When] will we be going to the house of the Lord?" Needless to say, this solution was proposed in a midrashic vein, and was never intended to account for the plain sense of the psalm.[2]

The solution adopted by many of the commentators trying to uncover the plain sense of the text is that David composed our psalm on behalf of future generations. But the question remains - for which generations?

1) The Radak and R. Yeshaya explain that "our psalm was recited by the members of the exile. Owing to their great yearning for the rebuilding of the Temple, they would mention Israel's festival pilgrimages and they would speak in the voice of their ancestors who lived during the period of the Temple" (wording of the Radak).

The Meiri (in one of his two explanations) offers a similar explanation - that "this psalm should be understood as referring to the members of the exile… He prophesies about the tidings of redemption, that when the time of redemption comes and the voice of salvation goes forth, the people's joy over the tidings will be great. And in order to magnify the superiority of the salvation, he speaks at length of the praises of Jerusalem, saying: 'Our feet were standing…,' That is, when you were in your fullness."[3]

Explanations of this sort, which understand the psalms in the book of Tehillim as prophecies uttered for the sake of the members of the exile, are very common in the commentaries of the Rishonim, and they stem from the desire to turn the book of Tehillim into one that expresses the sentiments of the Jewish people during the period in which these commentators lived. However, an examination of the text of the psalm reveals no hint whatsoever to the exile![4]

2) In our study of psalm 44,[5] we mentioned the view of R. Moshe Ha-Kohen Gikitila regarding the book of Tehillim, "that this book contains no prophecy about the future… all the psalms attributed to the sons of Korach were written by one of the singers descending from the children of Heman who were in Babylonia, for their words indicate exile."[6] These words conceal two assumptions that are exceptional in the traditional commentaries: a) the psalms of Tehilim that reflect historical events were written by poets who experienced these events and lived in the generations in which they occurred. b) The book of Tehilim includes psalms that were written the entire length of the biblical period, until the exile to Babylonia and the return from it. In order to support this view, R. Moshe makes great efforts to match the time implied by the contents of each of the psalms to the time of the author mentioned in the headings of those psalms.[7]

It is obvious, then, that R. Moshe could not accept the solution proposed by the commentators above, that David composed the psalm by way of prophecy regarding the distant future. How then did R. Moshe resolve the contradiction between the content of our psalm, which reflects a reality in which the Temple is standing, and the mention of David in its heading?

The Ibn Ezra, who often cites from R. Moshe's commentary (which was written in Arabic), quotes from it at the beginning of his own commentary to our psalm:

R. Moshe said that David composed this song so that it would be recited with the [other] songs in the house of God when it would be built.

He also agrees, then, that David composed this psalm so that it should be recited in the future – not for distant generations, the people living in exile or those living at the time of the Third Temple, but rather for the near generations, people living in David's own time who would merit to see the building of the Temple in the days of his son Shlomo.

R. Moshe's assumption frees him from having to attribute prophecy to David. Surely David knew from Natan the prophet that his son Shlomo would build the Temple. And just as David prepared the materials with which his son would build the Temple, as is described at length in Divrei Ha-yamim I 22, so too he prepared the songs that would be recited in the house of God after it was built.

3) The commentators whom we have brought thus far all assume that the mention of David's name in the psalm's heading testifies to the fact that he is the author of the psalm. It stands to reason that this is true about most of the psalms in the book of Tehillim whose headings include one or more names of people. There are, however, certain psalms regarding which it is more reasonable to assume that the heading contains a dedication of the psalm to the person mentioned therein. Thus, for example, the heading of psalm 127, "A Song of Ascents of Shlomo (li-Shelomo)," is understood by the Ibn Ezra as follows: "For Shlomo, like, 'And for Levi he said' (Devarim 33:Cool. This song was composed by one of the singers for Shlomo." The Radak proposes a similar explanation. The heading of psalm 72, "Li-Shlomo," was understood by the commentators in similar fashion - for Shlomo. Accordingly, it is not impossible that the heading "Le-David" should also sometimes be understood as "for David - in his honor."[8]

If we understand the psalm's heading in this manner, there is no reason to attribute our psalm to a period during which the Temple was not standing, neither to the period of David nor to the period of the exile. Our psalm very clearly reflects the experience of making a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and it is therefore reasonable to assume that its author participated in this uplifting experience.[9] And how appropriate it is that this unknown psalmist should have dedicated his song to David! It was David who dedicated his life to the construction of the Temple,[10] and it was he who established a dynasty of kings who ruled generation after generation – "the thrones of the house of David."[11]

In any event, it may be argued that our psalm is the song of pilgrims to Jerusalem who went up to the house of God. And indeed, during the Second Temple period, pilgrims to Jerusalem recited the verses of our psalm, as will be demonstrated below.


The only description of pilgrimages to Jerusalem during the Second Temple period that has been preserved in rabbinic literature – in the Mishna, the Tosefta and the Jerusalem Talmud – relates not to pilgrimages made on the three pilgrim festivals, but rather to pilgrimages to Jerusalem undertaken by those bringing bikkurim (first-fruit) to the city. It is clear from the account in tractate Bikkurim that the people bringing bikkurim from an entire district – "ma'amad" – would assemble together in order to bring the bikkurim as part of a large contingent:

How were the bikkurim taken up [to Jerusalem]? All [the inhabitants of] the cities that constituted the ma'amad assembled in the city of the ma'amad, and spent the night in the open place thereof… Early in the morning, the officer said: "Let us arise and go up to Zion, into the house of the Lord our God" (Yirmiyahu 31:5).[12]

Those who lived near brought fresh figs and grapes, but those from a distance brought dried figs and raisins. An ox with horns bedecked with gold and with an olive-crown on its head led the way. The flute was played before them until they were near to Jerusalem.

And when they arrived close to Jerusalem they sent messengers in advance[13] and ornamentally arrayed their bikkurim. The governors and chiefs and treasurers [of the Temple] went out to meet them. According to the rank of the entrants they would go forth. All the skilled artisans of Jerusalem would stand up before them and greet them: "Brethren, men of such and such a place, we are delighted to welcome you."

The flute was playing before them till they reached the Temple Mount; and when they reached the Temple Mount, even King Aggripas would take the basket and place it on his shoulders and walk as far as the Temple courtyard. At the approach to the courtyard, the Levites would sing the song: "I will extol You, O Lord, for You have raised me up; and have not suffered my enemies to rejoice over me." (Bikkurim 3:2-4)

The Yerushalmi (Bikkurim 3:2) brings a baraita that completes the description of the pilgrimage found in the mishna:

On the road they would say: "I was glad when they said to me: We are going to the house of the Lord." In Jerusalem they would say: "Our feet were standing within your gates, O Jerusalem.”

It stands to reason that the words "they would say" in this baraita do not mean that they would say this once as a proclamation, but rather that they would recite these verses over and over whenever they set off on their journey, and similarly when they arrived in Jerusalem.[14]

Of course, the mishna's description of the pilgrimage made by those bearing their bikkurim also fits the pilgrimage made on the three pilgrim festivals. Does the continuation found in the baraita brought in the Yerushalmi also fit the pilgrim festivals? Here there is room for doubt.

The mitzva of making a pilgrimage on the pilgrim festivals falls on each and every individual. But owing to the fact that all the pilgrims fulfilled their obligations on the same date, it stands to reason that they did so in great numbers as part of a mass pilgrimage.

The mitzva of bringing bikkurim to the Temple – "And you shall put it in a basket, and shall go to the place which the Lord your God shall choose to place His name there" (Devarim 26:2) – is also a mitzva that falls upon each and every individual who farms his land. There is, however, no single date on which to fulfill this mitzva: "From Atzeret [Shavuot] to the festival [Sukkot], he brings and recites [the obligatory passage]" (Bikkurim 1:6). Accordingly, each person could bring his bikkurim on a day that suited him and his produce.

Nevertheless, we see from the mishna that the bikkurim were brought to the Temple in the context of a large congregation. As opposed to the pilgrimages on the festivals, the pilgrimages of those bringing their bikkurim did not take place all at the same time from all parts of Eretz Yisrael, but rather each district would go up to Jerusalem at a different time. Upon what did the date of the pilgrimage depend? Upon the climatic and agricultural character of each different district. Eretz Yisrael is a land of mountains and valleys, and the growing place of various different kinds of produce. Dates grow in its valleys and other fruit of the seven species grow on its mountains. Some mountains grow grapes, others olives. The different climates in the various parts of the land also cause the same fruits to ripen at different times. Each district, depending upon its geographical-climatic and agricultural character, set its own time for bringing bikkurim in accordance with its climate and special produce.[15]

How did the farmers of a particular region know that it was time for them to assemble together in order to bring their first-fruit to the Temple? This question does not arise regarding the pilgrimages to Jerusalem on the three pilgrim festivals: there each person knew the date on which to leave his house in order to arrive in Jerusalem before the festival, and convoys of pilgrims would form in a most natural manner. But in the case of bikkurim, there was no fixed date each year!

It stands to reason that each year the elders of the region would set a date for assembling together for the purpose of going up to Jerusalem based on the special factors regarding the ripening of the fruits in that area, and messengers would inform all the farmers that on a particular day, all should assemble in "the city of the ma'amad."

Indeed, our psalm opens with the call:

I was glad when they said to me:

We are going to the house of the Lord.

Only those going up to Jerusalem with their bikkurim required that "they should say to them" that they were going up to the house of the Lord! The pilgrims going up to Jerusalem for the three pilgrim festivals did not need such a call, for they knew on their own when to set out.

It is possible, then, that our psalm is the psalm of those going up to Jerusalem with their bikkurim, the verses of which were recited on their way to and when they arrived in the city, as is described in the baraita in the Yerushalmi.[16]

(To be continued.)

(Translated by David Strauss)


[1] And similarly in the headings of the Songs of Ascent 124, 131 and 133. The heading of Song of Ascents 127 reads, "A Song of Ascents of Shlomo."

[2] Rashi cites this derasha in his commentary to verse 1.

The Meiri makes an interesting attempt to explain the psalm in accordance with its plain sense as describing an event in David's life:

If we explain it as referring to David himself, this is the explanation: When David said to Natan the prophet, "See now, I dwell in a house of cedar, but the ark of God dwells within curtain," and Natan answered him, "Go, do all that is in your heart, for the Lord is with you" (see Shmuel II 7 and Divrei Ha-yamim I 17), before he received the prophecy, "You shall not build the house" - he said: "I was glad when they said to me, We are going to the house of the Lord." That is to say: Regarding what Natan said to me, "Do all that is in your heart." I was sure that I would build it, and that "our feet would be standing within your gates," and the word "hayu" is a past tense ("were") that serves as a future tense ("would be"), and that it would be built and the tribes would go up there and they would sit on the thrones of justice – all past tense serving as a future tense.

But when he saw that his hopes would not be fulfilled, he said his words (beginning with verse 6) as one who yearns and laments about his inability to realize his desire. And he stirred his contemporaries, since he did not merit to build the Temple, neither him, nor them, his people, that they should bless it and pray to God for its peace and the peace of those who love it.

This explanation also does not accord with the plain sense of the psalm, and the Meiri would never have dreamed of suggesting it as an explanation of the body of the psalm, had he not been forced to do so by the psalm's heading.

[3] The difference between the Meiri and the two earlier commentators is that they explained the psalm as a song of yearning for Jerusalem, uttered in the sorrow of exile, whereas the Meiri seems to recognize that there is not the slightest hint of sorrow hanging over the psalmist. He therefore attributes the psalm to those in the exile who will utter it when they hear the tidings of redemption. Mentioning the praises of Jerusalem when it was at its height serves as psychological preparation for the rebuilding of Jerusalem in the near future. See below note 4c.

[4] a. What made it easier for these commentators to attribute our psalm to the people in exile is the contradiction between the heading, which attributes the psalm to David, and the body of the psalm, which clearly describes a period that does not accord with that of David. Thus, we are forced to adopt the accepted resolution that David spoke of the future by way of the holy spirit. This being the case, it is possible to push off this future to the period of the exile.

b. It should be noted that the Radak's explanation of our psalm follows from his understanding of all the Songs of Ascent as "songs uttered as if by the people in exile" (see beginning of psalm 120).

c. The Ibn Ezra brings an explanation that pushes off even further the future to which our psalm is referring: "There are those who say [that David uttered our psalm] with respect to the Third Temple." According to this explanation, we have here not a description of Jerusalem in the past, but rather a description of Jerusalem in the present, but this present is the prophetic present: the present of the people of the Third Temple period, in whose mouths David put his words by way of the holy spirit. This explanation does not follow at all from the body of the psalm, but solely from the contradiction between the heading and the body.

[5] Section VII, especially notes 1, 2 and 5.

[6] The citation is from the Ibn Ezra's introduction to the book of Tehillim. R. Moshe's name is not mentioned there, but it is clear that the Ibn Ezra is referring to him. See at length in U. Simon, Arba Gishot Le-Sefer Tehilim (Bar Ilan, 5742).

[7] This leads him to the conclusion that some of the people mentioned in the headings lived during the period of the exile, and not, as is generally accepted, in the generation of David. See his comments cited earlier regarding the sons of Korach.

[8] There is, however, a difference between the heading "Li-Shlomo" and what we are saying about the heading of our psalm: There, the commentators propose that the psalm was composed [by David or one of the other psalmists] for Shlomo in order to educate him or to bless him, whereas here we are suggesting that our psalm was composed in honor of David following his death. The common denominator between all these explanations is that the letter lamed that precedes a name can be understood as "for" (compare to the heading of psalm 92: "A psalm, a poem for the Sabbath day").

[9] It is difficult to attribute such an authentic account of the experience of going up to Jerusalem to someone who never experienced it, and not even to David, as was proposed by R. Moshe Ha-Kohen. This problem is not as striking in the Radak's explanation, for he understands our psalm as a song of yearning for Jerusalem on the part of the people in exile: they give expression to the concrete experience of making a pilgrimage that either they or their parents had during the time of the Temple.

[10] See psalm 132.

[11] As Brill says in his commentary: "Le-David – this means: for David, who conquered the city of Jerusalem from the hands of the Yevusi, built it, established his throne in it, and caused the ark of the covenant to rest there."

[12] The officer's call brings to mind the words of the "sayers" in our psalm: "We are going to the house of the Lord."

[13] Their stopping in this place brings to mind what is stated in our psalm: "Our feet were standing within your gates, O Jerusalem."

[14] a. It is twice mentioned in the mishnayot cited above that "the flute was played before them:" both when the people were on the way to Jerusalem and when they were in the city on the way to the Temple Mount. It stands to reason that they advanced singing and playing musical instruments.

b. It is difficult to conclude from the account in the Yerushalmi whether they would only sing these two verses from our psalm, or perhaps they would also sing the rest of the psalm after entering the city.

[15] a. Thus we learn (Bikkurim 1:3): "Bikkurim are not brought… from dates grown on hills [where they do not grow well], or from valley-fruits [from fruit that does not grow well in valleys]… that are not of the best kind." The farmers in each region brought the fruits that their region excelled in.

b. The significance of the fact that the Sages turned the mitzva of bikkurim, which falls upon each individual, into a mitzva that is fulfilled in the framework of a mass of people is explained in my study of Parashat Ki-Tavo (1st series), pp. 294-295. Our comments above regarding the pilgrimages and psalm 122 were taken from that study.

[16] As stated above, these ideas appeared earlier in my study of Parashat Ki-Tavo. When I included these ideas in the present study, I saw that similar ideas were alluded to by R. Yehuda Shaviv in his book, "Yesod Ha-Ma'ala – Iyunim Be-Shirei Ha-Ma'alot Bi-Tehillim," p. 54

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  MoMo on Thu Aug 11, 2011 5:34 pm

true lilly wrote: Oh, and don't get excited and stumble over:

and will cause to cease 7673 the kingdom 4468
of the house 1004 of Israel 3478.

Apparently you did (stumble) and have extracted one verse out of context to make your deranged claim that you have replaced the Jews as YHWH Chosen People.....Replacement/supersseionism Theology is Demonic. YHWHs Covenant with the Jews and Israel is Eternal.........the verse you selected was a prophecy that the Apostate Kingdom of Israel would be destroyed and it was, likewise the Kingdom of Judah was destroyed for apostasy also.........but it does not say it would be permanent. YHWHs Covenants are Eternal.



here's lilly big lie exposed for all to see.

By Rabbi/Brother Moshe Yoseph Koniuchowsky
Part Three On Israel’s Exciting, and Glorious End Time Restoration!

The hideous falsehood known as replacement theology has been a cancer in theological circles for the past two millennia that just seems to refuse to go away. While replacement theology takes on different applications, and modes, it is a theology originated by the early non Jewish fathers of the so called "Christian Church". It coldly states that a new Rome centered, and Roman based ecclesiastical organization called "the church", is the "new Israel". This new Israel, would now forever replace Jewish Israel, since Yahuwah permanently rejected the Jews for killing their Messiah, His Son. Extreme proponents of replacement theology have even gone so far as to claim that Yahuwah, the mean, and cruel despot, was the Elohim of the Old Covenant Jews, as opposed to Yahshua who is the forever loving, kind, and compassionate Elohim who had REPLACED YAHUWAH AS LORD OF "THE CHURCH" OR THE SO CALLED "NEW ISRAEL". In other words, Yahshua’s people have replaced the Father’s people.

This hideous doctrine is by no means a small theological side issue to be argued in a local pub. It has been at the forefront of antisemitism, Judeo-phobia, and has fully provided fuel for tragic historical events such as the Spanish Inquisition, the Catholic Crusades, the ouster of the Jews from every European country, as well as the Nazi holocaust. As history clearly demonstrates, Martin Luther, and other Protestant reformers blueprinted both the call, and the plans for the annihilation of the Jewish nation from Europe, and later the world by providing "so called Christians", with biblical justification to perpetrate genocide on world Jewry. Adolph Hitler knew full well that he could find theological approval, and support from these church folks. The inbred functionalism of this spiritual cancer amongst those that preach Yahshua is so widespread that it cannot be fully reversed, and eliminated until Yahshua’s millennial reign begins shortly when He returns to the earth. Even such seemingly benign church doctrines such as "Kingdom Now" theology or "Dominion" theology, where the so called "church" will christianize the world through the establishment of the bible as a global constitution, and whereby all world powers, and authorities will be won to, and taken over by Christendom, are nothing more than new attempts at replacing the "troublesome Jews". Wasn’t this flawed global christianization program, whereby Yahshua would merely take over a globally loyal populace converted through church efforts, already tried numerous times? Historically they were called the Crusades, Inquisitions, and Pogroms. Was it not the Crusaders who were attempting to take the globe by the sword, and convert, and subdue it by the gospel?...............These hideous theologies call anything Jewish to be anti Christ, and legalistic. Jewish practices are not welcome in their church systems. It is simply fascinating to me that "the church" has this insatiable desire to institute biblical law, and church sovereignty over the globe by spreading Yahuwah’s laws, when one of the major errors within Christianity is the very rejection, and the denial of the validity of first covenant instruction in New Covenant times.

The so called "church" system has repeatedly, and pridefully proclaimed to its adherents that the Torah or the laws of first covenant Israel are passed away, and nailed to the cross, and have therefore been replaced by the second covenant law, which is love, baby, love. In other words, this man made ecclesiastical organization started, funded, and headquartered in Rome, now wants to force their paganized Christendom down the throats of the worlds populace, with obedience to THE TEN COMMANDMENTS, and other teachings all based on the Decalogue, all the while instructing her very own members that it is not applicable to the New Covenant "church". Now you talk about confusion! How can a man made ecclesiastical system that is boastfully, and wrongfully antinomian (anti-Torah), at it’s very core theology, force the world’s populace to submit to rules, and regulations that they themselves loath as having preceded from the Jewish despot named Yahuwah, and His Jews? Remember that in true replacement theology a pagan blonde haired, and blue eyed European, pork eating Jesus (the English translation of the sun deity Zeus), has replaced Yahuwah the Father as LORD (from the pagan deity Lourdes), over his "church" (from the pagan circular ritual conducted by the Celts).

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  true lilly on Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:04 pm

tintin wrote:

This is the helicopter type used by

ABBA on the cover
From the BELL aircraft company. Founded on 10 july 1935,
day 191 of the year and the day WILIAM of ORANGE DIED.
It was another WILLIAM of ORANGE that founded the BANK of ENGLAND.

ichi wa zen wrote:
21-01-2008, 09:12 PM #1402

ichi wa zen
TinTin, you are a very suspicious person.

tintin wrote:
Originally Posted by pri01

Tin Tin I spelt it wrong I should have written 'MITSRAYIM' which has
been regularly referred to in this thread. What does this mean? I am
trying to make sense of this bible info as I am reading conflicting info
in books written by Zacharia Sitchen 'The earth chronicles' where there
is reference to the bible in terms of it being plagurised from the
sumerian texts. Thanks.

Ok, despite a huge hangover I will try to explain a few things.

Life is about a choice. It's between life or death.
You will not die! After this life in the flesh you will still be there.
That means if you have lived according to GOD's rules.

God's rules are shown in the example of Christ.
For me it's quite simple.
Love, forgiveness and truth.

That's the whole Christian religion in a nutshell.
If you follow that example you will indeed land in a so
called heaven. In the presence of God.

If you are serving THE BEAST then you will die the SECOND DEATH.

You will cease to exist. Then there is no you anymore.
That's the choice people have to make.

And that is one of the things the BIBLE teaches you.

And by promoting the idea that this life is ALL THERE IS, you
create a "party like" atmosphere.

You can do whatever you want, because when you're dead
it's all over. But there is such a thing as JUDGEMENT day.
Life is a TEST.

GOD's chosen people are the "spiritual" jews.
Not the
RACIAL JEWS. God hates RACISM and all people are EQUAL
Whatever race.

That whole RACE issue, jews, Ashkenazi or Sephardic, it's all
nonsense. Those KHAZARS in Israel today are from the

And lot's of good Christians still fall into that race trap.
And that's why that AUSTRALIA story is so important.
When you see that land, and I have seen only a tiny
part of it, then you start to understand the BIBLE.

Hollywood and SATAN wants us to believe that MOSES
led his people out of EGYPT and was wandering 40 years in the DESERT.
But Israel is NEXT door to EGYPT, so how can it take 40 years?

But the real story is the trip from South America to Australia.
That was by way of some sort of "island hopping".
So that took indeed some time.
(but Vera Susa is the one with the bible knowledge.
And she combines a few things. She is SMART and HONEST
at the same time, a bit rare these days....)

Everything that Hollywood teaches us and that includes
lies about GOD and the BIBLE is turned upside down.
They call Australia DOWN UNDER. Just use the upside down rule.

Satan knows that but he doesn't tell you openly.
And that's another thing GOD hates.
God is here for EVERYONE, and he wants to TRUTH to
be known to EVERYONE.

There are a lot of people that know exactly what is
coming to the World. And that is WAR and HORROR and floodings,
diseases, etc,etc. We are now entering the END-TIMES.

Christ is REAL.
Satan knows that as well.

That's why he desperately wants to surpress the real
bible truths. Because he is about DEATH, and wants to take as
many people with him.

If you KNOW AUSTRALIA is the land mentioned in the BIBLE
but still remain silent about it, then you are SERVING the BEAST.

Deliberately lying and decieving is the most STUPID thing
there is. You will die the second death.
And you will not
even know what you are missing.

So even if you don't believe all of this, just try to be honest
and decent. It's just the smartest thing to do.....

(btw Pri01, I am not that familiar with Sitchin, but if
he's not memtioning Australia, then I wouldn't trust him


tintin wrote:
here's the post you asked for billy...
are you game enough to let it through...
as written...this time... Rolling Eyes
true lilly wrote:

Fly to London in 49

Aircraft capable of
reaching speeds
of 20,921km/h tested this


...YES, it IS related...

August 11, 2011 -

Don't think
this related?

I know it is.

I Posted to WATCH for it, years

Monday August 8,2011

Zara and Toytown go for gold at
The fog rolls over Melbourne
as seen from
the Eureka Tower Skydeck.
Picture: Jay Town

Lily managed to capture some
nice shots of winter from our living room.

...but of course, "tintin" removed

...Just Imagine...
...leibovitz images...murdoch images...
.. Just Imagine, what
...ONE a thousand words...8 IMAGES...
...and more...

Now is the winter of our discontent...
...where did "The City" go?...to THE CITY....

It was an extra blanket night last night,
with temperatures dropping to a shivery 3.5C in
the city and 0C in some outlying areas.
Perfect for the blanket fog that shrouded the skyline.
Picture: Chris Scott
Read More
..."THE CITY",
in the winter fog of our discontent,
gone to THE CITY of...

Melbourne winter fog
...'good-bye' to "THE CITY" of Grey ...

...Hello, to THE CITY of GOLD...

...The Queen's, VICTORIA'S, Old, "NEW CITY"...


through The Fog, To, THE CITY of GOLD...

...NOT in The DESERTS of 'Israel'...


(and yes, I found "the link")

...ILLUMINATING enough for you, yet...

...or still can't see straight,
through as...The fog rolls over Melbourne
as seen from the Eureka Tower Skydeck.
Picture: Jay Town

Lily managed to capture some
nice shots of winter from our living room.

...but of course, "tintin" removed
another, GRANDER...

1600 × 1200 -
of botanical gardens
from Eureka Tower, Melbourne...

... and over Port PHILLIP Bay...

...yes, blood is thick...but...
...Spirit is quick...and FAST.
true lilly

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  true lilly on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:55 pm

Thousands lined the streets of Melbourne
to cheer on Tour de France winner and hometown
hero Cadel Evans.
Evans pedalled slowly down
St Kilda Road as he zig-zagged across the street
as he rode to
Federation Square.

Read More

Herald Sun journalist Patrick Carlyon
a city fighting to rebuild its spirit

and its places despite the threat
of another major earthquake.
Jeff McLay, pictured with wife Wendy,
survived the PGC building collapse.

Read More

Now lets see, years ago, on the old, "The Forum" of David Icke's,
when folk, not feeling safe where they lived, asked where a good
place to migrate to, would be, and I showed and explained that
the VAST, STABLE Land mass known as Australia, was literally,
the safest land, and long preserved, waiting for it's turn of being,
fully developed i.e. lots of town and city building, infrastructure
work to accommodate our very small but growing population,
and that there were areas to suit all natures i.e. tropics, snowy
mountains, rich pastureland, fresh and sea waters etc. and so
people didn't have to cram in to bloated western cities like London,
but could spread out and actually Be A Part Of Building a Nation...

... where else was it that Ciggy recommend, besides places that
have since suffered military/political 'unrest' such as Fiji...
oh, that's right, volcanically very unstable NEW ZEALAND...

FROM where, LONG Before Christchurch and surrounds CRUMBLED,
New Zealanders have been flooding INTO Australia!

Yep, everywhere/anywhere BUT Australia, the only truly booming
western nation in this period when the rest of the west is turning
on itself and going Violently Broke.

Just another little reminder 'from Murdoch' Wink , that unlike Ciggy and
the rest of Team Tintin (who've 'predicted' countless 'events' that
simply did NOT come to be), that THROUGH Bothering to Trust God
and UNDERSTAND Holy Scripture, for years, I've constantly, Literally,
been 'On The Money'...funny that, to, how KEEN 'tintin' (then 'Cruise'),
was to 'get to know me', when I posted, AGAINST ALL THE EXPERTS,
that GOLD was about to BOOM (they said $420. was TOO MUCH Rolling Eyes
...Along with that other, 'Real' thing, Australian Real Estate, as it DID Wink

But I did also warn, that we would suffer our 'corrections', FOR those
'of the wrong spirit' infecting this land with their policies of betrayal
in helping The Anti-Christ, King of The North in his attempted, final,
invasion push. You know that 'wrong spirit'. The one that has infected
the good peoples of all nations. But it's those who resisted that stone,
cold, self-serving spirit, and maintained a spirit of wisdom, justice and
Productive, Edifying industry, that this land is ultimately preserved for,
and from where, the healing of all nations, will first begin to flow.
Very Happy

And me, well I don't have to be around to see 'that day', but take joy
in knowing
I was blessed to see just how many of God's promises He

Has Kept (all so far Wink), and know that also means that He Will Keep
His Promise of DEFEATING The Beast and it's bloody rule of this very
long, death contaminated 'age' of this real world. Smile Very Happy

So, pretty bloody sad, that
'tintin' chose to TURN AWAY FROM this, Very Best News Ever,
and work flat out pushing that, "THERE IS NO HOPE!
and DIE!", slyly twisted, LYING message, Designed to
call the world to insanely, chase personal lusts=The Beasts bidding,
at that final, doomed to failure, last push at Taking
O'Zion from
the re-gathered of Israel, Judah and those Joining them in God's,
Just, Healing, Living, Creating, Holy Spirit.

true lilly

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  true lilly on Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:19 pm

So, which Continent Sized, Rich Land,
Dwelling On It's Own
, did 'tptb', HIDE
and keep as a SECRET for HUNDREDS
of years, after (officially) Re-discovering it

The Land Where God Sets His
Eternal Throne.

Elam = "eternity"
Probably from עָלַם (H5956)
A primitive root
1) to conceal, hide, be hidden, be concealed, be secret
a) (Qal) secret (participle)
b) (Niphal)
1) to be concealed
2) concealed, dissembler (participle)
c) (Hiphil) to conceal, hide
d) (Hithpael) to hide oneself


Arise 6965 , get you up 5927
unto the wealthy 7961 nation 1471,

that dwelleth 3427 without care 983,
saith 5002 the LORD 3068,
which have neither gates 1817 nor bars 1280,

[which] dwell 7931 alone 910.

But I have made Esau 6215 bare 2834 ,
I have uncovered 1540 his secret places 4565,

and he shall not be able 3201 to hide 2247 himself:
his seed 2233 is spoiled 7703 , and his brethren 251,
and his neighbours 7934, and he [is] not.

Leave 5800 thy fatherless children 3490,
I will preserve [them] alive 2421 ;
and let thy widows 490 trust 982 in me.

Wherefore gloriest 1984 thou in the valleys 6010,
thy flowing 2100 valley 6010,
O backsliding 7728 daughter 1323?
that trusted 982 in her treasures 214,
[saying], Who shall come 935 unto me?

Behold, I will bring 935 a fear 6343 upon thee,
saith 5002 the Lord 136 GOD 3069 of hosts 6635,
from all those that be about 5439 thee;
and ye shall be driven out 5080 every man 376 right forth 6440;
and none shall gather up 6908 him that wandereth 5074 .

And I will set 7760 my throne 3678 in Elam 5867,
and will destroy 6 from thence the king 4428
and the princes 8269,
saith 5002 the LORD 3068.


For the sons of Am´mon this is what Jehovah has
said: “Are there no sons that Israel has, or is there no inheritor that
he has? Why is it that Mal´cam has taken possession of Gad, and his own
people have taken up dwelling in [Israel’s] very cities?”

“‘Therefore, look! there are days coming,’ is the
utterance of Jehovah, ‘and I will cause the alarm signal of war to be
heard even against Rab´bah of the sons of Am´mon; and she will certainly
become a mound of a desolate waste, and her dependent towns themselves
will be set aflame in the very fire.’

“‘And Israel will actually take possession of those in possession of him,’ Jehovah has said.
“‘Howl, O Hesh´bon, for A´i has been despoiled!
Cry out, O dependent towns of Rab´bah. Gird sackcloth on yourselves.
Wail, and rove about among the stone pens, for Mal´cam himself will go
even into exile, his priests and his princes, all together. 4
Why do you brag about the low plains, your flowing
low plain, O daughter unfaithful, you the one trusting in her
treasures, [saying:] “Who will come to me?”’”

“‘Here I am bringing in upon you a dreadful
thing,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord, Jehovah of armies, ‘from
all those round about you. And YOU people
will certainly be dispersed, each one in his own direction, and there
will be no one collecting together those running away.’”

“‘But afterward I shall gather the captive ones of the sons of Am´mon,’ is the utterance of Jehovah.”

For E´dom this is what Jehovah of armies has said:
“Is there no longer any wisdom in Te´man? Has counsel perished from
those having understanding? Has their wisdom gone to putrefying?
Flee! Let yourselves give way! Go down deep in
order to dwell, O inhabitants of De´dan! For the disaster of E´sau I
will bring in upon him, the time that I must turn my attention to him.
If grape gatherers themselves actually came in to
you, would they not let some gleanings remain? If thieves [came in] by
night, they would certainly cause only as much ruin as they wanted.
But as for me, I will strip E´sau bare. I will
uncover his places of concealment, and one will not be able to hide
oneself. His offspring and his brothers and his neighbors will certainly
be despoiled, and he will not be.
Do leave your fatherless boys. I myself shall preserve [them] alive, and your own widows will trust even in me.”

For this is what Jehovah has said: “Look!
Although it is not their custom to drink the cup, they will drink
without fail. And you yourself, will you be absolutely left unpunished?
You will not be left unpunished, for you will drink without fail.”

“For by my own self I have sworn,” is the
utterance of Jehovah, “that nothing but an object of astonishment, a
reproach, a devastation and a malediction will Boz´rah become; and all
her own cities will become devastated places to time indefinite.”

There is a report that I have heard from Jehovah,
and there is an envoy that is sent among the nations, [saying:]
“Collect yourselves together, and come against her, and rise up to

“For, look! I have made you small indeed among the nations, despised among mankind.
The shuddering you caused has deceived you, the
presumptuousness of your heart, O you who are residing in the retreats
of the crag, holding the height of the hill. Although you build your
nest high up just like an eagle, down from there I shall bring you,” is
the utterance of Jehovah.
“And E´dom must become an object of astonishment.
Everyone passing along by her will stare in astonishment and whistle on
account of all her plagues.
Just as in the overthrow of Sod´om and Go·mor´rah
and her neighbor [towns],” Jehovah has said, “no man will dwell there,
and no son of mankind will reside in her as an alien.

“Look! Someone will come up just like a lion from
the proud [thickets] along the Jordan to the durable abiding place, but
in a moment I will make him run away from her. And the one who is
chosen I shall appoint over her. For who is like me, and who will
challenge me, and who, now, is the shepherd that can stand before me?
Therefore hear, O men, the counsel of Jehovah
that he has formulated against E´dom, and his thoughts that he has
thought out against the inhabitants of Te´man: Surely the little ones of
the flock will be dragged about. Surely on account of them he will make
their dwelling place become desolate.
At the sound of their falling the earth has begun
to rock. There is an outcry! The sound of it has been heard even at the
Red Sea.
Look! Just like an eagle someone will ascend and
pounce down, and he will spread out his wings over Boz´rah; and the
heart of the mighty men of E´dom will actually become in that day like
the heart of the wife having distress in childbirth.”

For Damascus: “Ha´math and Ar´pad have become
ashamed, for it is a bad report that they have heard. They have
disintegrated. In the sea there is anxious care; it is not able to keep
Damascus has lost courage. She has turned to
flee, and sheer panic has seized her. Distress and birth pangs
themselves have taken hold of her, as with a woman that is giving birth.
How is it that the city of praise has not been abandoned, the town of exultation?

“Therefore her young men will fall in her public
squares, and all the men of war themselves will be brought to silence in
that day,” is the utterance of Jehovah of armies.
“And I will set a fire ablaze on the wall of Damascus, and it will certainly devour the dwelling towers of Ben-ha´dad.”

For Ke´dar and the kingdoms of Ha´zor, which
Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon struck down, this is what Jehovah
has said: “Rise up, go up to Ke´dar, O men, and despoil the sons of the
Their own tents and their own flocks will be
taken, their tent cloths and all their articles. And their own camels
will be carried off from them. And they will certainly cry out to them,
‘Fright is all around!’”

“Flee, take flight far away; go down deep in
order to dwell, O inhabitants of Ha´zor,” is the utterance of Jehovah.
“For Neb·u·chad·rez´zar the king of Babylon has formulated a counsel
even against YOU and has thought out against YOU a thought.”

“Rise up, O men, go up against the nation that is at ease, dwelling in security!” is the utterance of Jehovah.
“No doors and no bar does it have. Solitary they reside.
And their camels must become a plunder, and the
multitude of their livestock a spoil. And I will scatter them to every
wind, those who have their hair clipped at the temples; and from all
regions near it I shall bring in their disaster,” is the utterance of
“And Ha´zor must become the lair of jackals, a
desolate waste to time indefinite. No man will dwell there, and in her
no son of mankind will reside as an alien.”

This is what occurred as the word of Jehovah to
Jeremiah the prophet concerning E´lam in the beginning of the kingship
of Zed·e·ki´ah the king of Judah, saying:
“This is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘Here I am breaking the bow of E´lam, the beginning of their mightiness.
And I will bring in upon E´lam the four winds
from the four extremities of the heavens. And I will scatter them to all
these winds, and there will prove to be no nation to which the
dispersed ones of E´lam will not come.’”

“And I will shatter the E´lam·ites before their
enemies and before those seeking for their soul; and I will bring upon
them a calamity, my burning anger,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “And I
will send after them the sword until I shall have exterminated them.”

And I will set my throne in E´lam, and I will destroy out of there the king and the princes,” is the utterance of Jehovah.

“And it will certainly occur in the final part of
the days that I shall gather the captive ones of E´lam,” is the
utterance of Jehovah.

Yes, best you IGNORE 'them' (the children of the father of the lie),
and study The Word of He Who cannot lie, God's Word,
The Faithful, Living Word of The Creator of Life.
true lilly

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  Sod-Haus...!!! on Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:32 pm

Apocalypse Has Come To Mean The End Of The World,

Even If The Original Word Didn't Mean That...!!!

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

Post  true lilly on Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:34 pm

Sod-Haus...!!! wrote:Apocalypse Has Come To Mean The End Of The World,

Even If The Original Word Didn't Mean That...!!!

LIE LIE LIE...a LIE that
The Beast NEEDS people to believe,
so that they will choose to join in

And that 'you', like 'cori',
feel the need to so strongly, perpetuate
the "end of the world" MYTH=KNOWN TO BE A LIE,
rather than choose to CORRECT SUCH DEADLY LIES...

REVELATIONS of things HIDDEN such as
HOW, and WHY 'they' kept the,
"Australia is an unlivable desert LIE", 'alive'

for so long.

Keep silence 2790 before me, O islands 339;
and let the people 3816 renew 2498 [their] strength 3581:
let them come near 5066 ; then let them speak 1696 :
let us come near 7126 together 3162 to judgment 4941.

JUDGMENT, Not 'the end of the world', only,
The End of The Rule of The Beastly Worldly.

And there it is, MY 'crime' against ALL 'you' MOB:
'your' DEVOTION to The Lies that

MY 'crime' against ALL 'you' MOB IS DOING
what ALL The CONspiracy Industry lies 'they' do:

Argue against me all 'you' like,
murder me if 'you' want,
but it is not me who
and 'you' have NO ANSWER as to why,
continuing to lie about me was 'your'
only counter
to admitting The Proven,
Saving Truth of God's Eternal, Living Authority.
true lilly

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Re: Apocalypse=REVELATION, NOT 'the end of the world'...

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