Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

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Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:25 am

This is in the News today, BBC News, but it's over a month, over 40 years, over 200 years,
and much, much older 'news', that like so much more truly ancient Australian History, 'they',
at David Icke Official Forums, like the rest of The CONspiracy industry, dare not, post, let alone, honestly discuss. Because, it is only one of countless real world proofs, that when God described, ALL the world, ALL the earth, All peoples, FROM THE BEGINNING, that is what He meant.


6 October 2011
Last updated at 02:18 GMT
Aboriginal Stonehenge:
Stargazing in ancient Australia


By Stephanie Hegarty
BBC World Service


Continue reading the main story

An egg-shaped ring of standing stones in Australia
could prove to be older than Britain's Stonehenge - and it may show that
ancient Aboriginal cultures had a deep understanding of the movements of the stars.


Fifty metres wide and containing more than 100 basalt boulders,
the site of
Wurdi Youang in Victoria was noted by European
settlers two centuries ago,
and charted by archaeologists in 1977,

but only now is its purpose being rediscovered.


It is thought the site was built by the Wadda Wurrung people -
the traditional inhabitants of the area. All understanding of the
rocks' significance was lost, however, when traditional language and
practices were banned at the beginning of the 20th Century.


Now a team of archaeologists, astronomers and Aboriginal advisers
is reclaiming that knowledge.


They have discovered that waist-high boulders at the tip of
the egg-shaped point along the ring to the position on the horizon
where the sun sets at the summer and winter solstice - the longest
and shortest day of the year.


“Start Quote
<blockquote>It is interesting to know how far back people were doing astronomy,
if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge”

</blockquote> Prof Ray Norris
Astrophysicist



The axis from top to bottom points towards the equinox -
when the length of day equals night.


At Stonehenge, the sun aligns instead with gaps in the stones
on these key dates in the solar calendar.


The probability that layout of Wurdi Youang is a coincidence
is miniscule, argues Ray Norris, a British astrophysicist at Australia's
national science agency, who is leading the investigation.


Prof Norris and his Aboriginal partners used Nasa technology
to measure the position of each rock in relation to the sun, and
to demonstrate the connection with the solstices and equinox.


"It's truly special because
a lot of people don't take account of Aboriginal science,"

says Reg Abrahams, an Aboriginal adviser working with Prof Norris.


Giant emu
As happened with Stonehenge, the discovery could change the
way people view early societies. It is only recently that it has been
demonstrated that Aboriginal societies could count beyond five or six.


"This is the first time we have been able to show that,
as well as being interested in the position of the sun,
they were making astronomical measurements,"
says Prof Norris,
who is also a faculty member at the School of Indigenous Studies
at Macquarie University in Sydney.



This photo of the emu in the sky by an aboriginal rock carving
was sent to every school in Australia



Other studies by Prof Norris, of Aboriginal songs and stories,
have also indicated a clear understanding of the movements of the sun,
moon and stars.


Indigenous customs vary among groups across Australia, but
one story that appears in many local traditions is
the tale of a great emu that sits in the sky.


The emu, which can be seen in the southern hemisphere during
April and May, is a shape made by the dark patches of the Milky Way.


Its appearance coincides with laying season of the wild emu
and for the storytellers it is a sign to start collecting eggs.


Prompted by historian Hugh Cairns, Prof Norris examined and
photographed an emu-shaped rock carving in Kuring-Gai Chase National
Park, near Sydney, which cleverly mirrors the celestial animal-like shape.

During the southern autumn, the constellation
is positioned above the rock
with the bird shape almost perfectly reflected
by the engraving.


Intellectual leap
Other stories show more complex,
intellectual understanding of the universe.


In the case of the solar eclipse, the Walpiri people in the Northern Territory
tell the story of a sun-woman who pursues a moon-man.
When she catches him the two become husband and wife
together causing a solar eclipse.


The idea that the solar eclipse is caused by the moon moving
in front of the sun is something only widely accepted by western
scientists in the 16th Century.


"This is not about balls of flames going out,
it's about one body moving in front of the other,"

says Prof Norris. "That is a giant intellectual leap."


Since solar eclipses are rare, the survival of this story,
passed down through generations,
also shows a remarkable continuity of learning.


These discoveries play a crucial role in helping
Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians
understand just how intellectually
advanced their ancient society was.


"This discovery has huge significance for understanding the
amazing ability of this culture that is maligned," says Janet Mooney,
head of Indigenous Australian Studies at Sydney University.


"It makes not only me, as an Aboriginal person,
but a lot of Aboriginal people around Australia very proud."


She hopes to be able to tell her students of
an aboriginal site more ancient than Stonehenge.


Continue reading the main story Aboriginal cultures

  • Australia's indigenous Aboriginal population make up 470,000 of the country's 21 million population
  • There are more than 400 separate Aboriginal traditions in Australia but they share many beliefs
  • All aboriginal cultures believe in the Dreaming, an expression
    for man's relationship to the spiritual natural and moral elements of
    the world

  • A Dreaming is a story owned by a particular tribe that tells the story of creation
Until it is dated however, Wurdi Youang could be anywhere from 200 to 20,000 years old.

Aboriginal stone structures in the region have a vast age
range and are very difficult to date. Many of the smaller rock sites
that have been found, such as shelters and cooking areas, have been
moved over time by natural and human forces.


But given the size of the stones at Wurdi Youang and how
deeply they are entrenched in the ground it is more likely they have
been there for thousands of years, archaeologists say.


Dating requires archaeologists to test the soil under the
rocks to see when it was last exposed to sunlight and the team hope to
be able to do this in the next few months.


But Prof Norris believes he has already proven the real value of the stone circle.

"It is interesting to know how far back people were doing
astronomy, if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge," he
says.


"But it is not quite as interesting to my mind as whether the
Aboriginal people were doing real astronomy before British contact.
That really tells us a lot about what kind of culture it is."


Reach for the Stars - Aboriginal Astronomy was produced by Robert Cockburn and broadcast by Discovery for BBC World Service. Listen the radio documentary here
___________________________________________________
Good readers, this was my playground, growing up. It caused me to ask these questions,
about this glorious, truly ancient land's, truly ancient history, even as a child, yet despite
always getting the 'accepted', stock fob off's, 'something' always told
me that's what they were. Simple answers given to a child, as if being a
child made one simple. And so I kept, looking, asking, thinking about
answers given, and why they were given, when obviously,
so many of those 'accepted' answers, contradicted other 'accepted'
answers. Until now at a mature age, having enjoyed an 'interesting'
life, moving around a lot of this country, amongst many cultural and
social groups, from farming to politics, and much in between
and on the fringes, I found that when removing the contradictions,
what we are left with, is, what God described, from the beginning.

true lilly wrote:Another Sign to LOCATE Lands
Described in Holy Scripture...


NO ONE can simply walk up to
"quails" or "pheasants"
and collect more than they can eat,
but in ONE AREA on Earth they CAN, STILL,
gather the most tasty of birds...


Mutton Birds

Aboriginal people still harvest the mutton
birds. Our catch and sales are dependent
on the sustainability of the harvest. Mutton
birds are a delicacy to eat, with a rich oily
flavour unlike any other.



The short-tailed shearwater of Griffiths Island
(Puffinus tenuirostiris - Tasmanian Shearwater)
is commonly called the 'mutton bird'.

Given the name 'mutton bird'
by early settlers of Port Fairy
of its fatty flesh, the shearwater
was hunted as a food and oil source.

Today the shearwater
is totally protected in Victoria.


The journey, of about 15,000 km, passes
New Zealand and Japan
and is completed in only two months.

The return journey follows the coast of
North America to California,
then south-west across the Pacific.
Prevailing winds aid their flight for most of the journey
but on the final leg, from the central Pacific,
the birds battle across south-east winds
.

They return to their nesting grounds exhausted...
http://www.port-fairy.com/shearwaters.htm


Ferley Gardner,
Tasmanian Aboriginal Elder...
...One of the highlights of her childhood was
when her family would pack up everything each year
and travel to Big Dog Island or Babel Island
for the mutton bird season.

...COLLECTING BIRDS ON BABEL ISLAND ...

http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Tr...s/s1045602.htm
And all anyone has to do to see it, is get over that patently absurd,
insanely too short, only recently agreed on, "out of Egypt" lie.
true lilly wrote:Australian Aborigines the first astronomers
Posted on September 20, 2010 by Deskarati

Rock engravings at Ngaut Ngaut, South Australia, which are said to
represent lunar cycles. There are many examples like this throughout
Australia which suggest that astronomy is an important part of many
Australian Aboriginal cultures.

An Australian study has uncovered signs that the country’s ancient
Aborigines may have been the world’s first stargazers, pre-dating
Stonehenge and Egypt’s pyramids by thousands of years.


Ray Norris said widespread and detailed knowledge of the stars had
been passed down through the generations by Aborigines, whose history
dates back tens of millennia, in traditional songs and stories.

“We know there’s lots of stories about the sky: songs, legends,
myths,” said Norris, an astronomer for Australia’s science agency, the
Commonwealth Scientific and Research Organisation (CSIRO).


Star-gazing for food

“We wondered how much further does it go than that. It turns out also
people used the sky for navigation, time-keeping, to mark out the
seasons, so it’s very practical.


“People were nomadic so when Pleiades (the Seven Sisters star
cluster) was up they would move to where the nuts and berries are.
Another sign and it would be time to move to the rivers to fish for
barramundi, and so on.”

Norris, who has studied Aboriginal culture and historical accounts by
white settlers, and made several trips to Arnhem Land in Australia’s
remote Outback, said his research also revealed more detailed
astronomical thought.

Figuring out an eclipse

“Clearly some thinker in the past has been sitting down in the bush,
watching an eclipse and trying to figure out how it works,” he said,
giving one example.

“Those thoughts are then encoded in the songs and ceremonies.
If you
take a lunar eclipse, the story in Arnhem Land is it’s the Sun Woman and
Moon Man making love, and when they make love the body of one covers
the other.”

Norris is now searching for evidence that would put a date on
Aboriginal astronomy, such as a rock-carving of a meteor strike or
comet.

Establishing a beginning date

He is confident the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain’s astronomy-linked Stonehenge, which is estimated at
3,100 BC, around the age of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

“We’ve established there is all this astronomy, what I don’t know is
how far back this goes. If it goes back 10,000 or 20,000 years, that
makes (Aborigines) the world’s first astronomers,”
he said.

via
Australian Aborigines the first astronomers | COSMOS magazine.
___________________________________________________________

The thing is, THEY KNOW IT GOES BACK MUCH FURTHER.
It's just that we need to slowly ease the world into feeling like
they are part of the discovery, rather than feeling like dills.

Oh, and I think it was palomino who first posted this, way back then.




Researchers are confident
the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain's astronomy-linked Stonehenge.
(AAP)
WANJINA...the tin foil hat brigade only want to see 'spacemen',
in everything...but come on, these are simply, Mighty, Big, Hairy,
White Freckled Skinned, Red Heads...The Tribe of BENJAMIN...
also, Female Wanjina are very rare, as BENJAMIN nearly became
extinct. Sex crazed, immorally, cruelly, unhealthily so, the rest of
The Tribes of Israel banned intermarriage with them, but so that
they didn't die out (God keeping His Promise), they took women
not of Israel, as wives.



Judges - Chapter 21

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=21&t=KJV#14
And they said 559 , [There must be] an inheritance 3425 for them that be escaped 6413 of Benjamin 1144, that a tribe 7626 be not destroyed 4229 out of Israel 3478.


Howbeit we may 3201 not give 5414 them wives 802 of our daughters 1323: for the children 1121 of Israel 3478 have sworn 7650 , saying 559 , Cursed 779 [be] he that giveth 5414 a wife 802 to Benjamin 1144.


Then they said 559 , Behold, [there is] a feast 2282 of the LORD 3068 in Shiloh 7887 yearly 3117 3117 [in a place] which [is] on the north side 6828 of Bethel 1008, on the east side 4217 8121 of the highway 4546 that goeth up 5927 from Bethel 1008 to Shechem 7927, and on the south 5045 of Lebonah 3829.


Therefore they commanded 6680 the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144, saying 559 , Go 3212 and lie in wait 693 in the vineyards 3754;

And see 7200 , and, behold, if the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887 come out 3318 to dance 2342 in dances 4246, then come ye out 3318 of the vineyards 3754, and catch 2414 you every man 376 his wife 802 of the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887, and go 1980 to the land 776 of Benjamin 1144.

And it shall be, when their fathers 1 or their brethren 251 come 935 unto us to complain 7378 , that we will say 559 unto them, Be favourable 2603 unto them for our sakes: because we reserved 3947 not to each man 376 his wife 802 in the war 4421: for ye did not give 5414 unto them at this time 6256, [that] ye should be guilty 816 .


And the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144 did so 6213 , and took 5375 [them] wives 802, according to their number 4557, of them that danced 2342 , whom they caught 1497 : and they went 3212 and returned 7725 unto their inheritance 5159, and repaired 1129 the cities 5892, and dwelt 3427 in them.


And the children 1121 of Israel 3478 departed 1980 thence at that time 6256, every man 376 to his tribe 7626 and to his family 4940, and they went out 3318 from thence every man 376 to his inheritance 5159.


In those days 3117 [there was] no king 4428 in Israel 3478: every man 376 did 6213 [that which was] right 3477 in his own eyes 5869.

_____________________________________________________
Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin...

...can't you hear the same name, travel over many ages, and tongues,
and still belong to the same type of people described...


Aboriginal people believe

we have been here "forever".

According to current scientific
theories,
it is thought that Aborigines have
occupied Australia
for over 60,000 years -
and possibly
more than 100,000 years.


Last edited by true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:27 am

Like I've mentioned, if I post it, it's worth paying attention to, and,
like I've mentioned, when I started this thread, there were not, nearly
5000 "BEAR" stories in the news...

BEAR in news again. TIN TIN R U There??

Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

No wonder "tintin's" run away, and readers are leaving in droves.
When you Google:
tintin australia the biggest secret david icke,
THIS IS THE FIRST OFFERING -


The NEWS behind the NEWS. - Page 43 - David Icke's Official Forumsforum.davidicke.comMain ForumsToday's News
10 posts - 3 authors - Last post: 28 Oct 2007
That is the UNOFFICIAL national song of Australia.
Frank baum ... AUSTRALIA is the BIG SECRET. tintin is offline ...
Find More Posts by tintin ...


THIS IS THE SECOND -

BEAR in news again. TIN TIN R U There?? - David Icke's Official Forumswww.davidicke.com › ... › Main ForumsToday's News
9 posts - 4 authors - Last post: 19 Mar 2008
NEMO is located in AUSTRALIA. The TINTIN album about the MAGPIE is ...

NOT 'David Icke's' GREAT DECEPTION.
true lilly wrote:Grizzly Killed After
DNA Links to 2nd Mauling

279 related articles

Bear chases dog into Pennsylvania home, attacks couple
CNN - 332 related articles

Market Nears Bear Territory
Wall Street Journal - 4132 related articles

4132
332
279
=
4743
And the telling thing is, that "tintin" MAULED HIMSELF,
when HE SET OUT TO LIE & DECEIVE, and CAME TO,
MY HOME FOR 3 WEEKS, to personally look for a way
TO MAUL ME, BECAUSE HE KNEW I DIDN'T LIE,
ABOUT GOD'S WORD REVEALING THE SAVING TRUTH.
avatar
true lilly

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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:29 am

'Billy Ruben' claims to be part Australian
Aboriginal. 'Billy Ruben' should apologise for trashing 'his' most
ancient culture, in order to suck up to the White, Northern Invaders,
and betray 'his' peoples country, heritage, history, for 'his' personal,
worldly, lusts and desires.
avatar
true lilly

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'Ciggy' SCREAMS!!!

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:38 am

'Ciggy' SCREAMS!!! 'Billy' SCREAMS!!! 'They' ALL SCREAM!!!

LIES!




...And...KEEPS SENDING PEOPLE BROKE with
HIS FINANCIAL/REAL Estate 'advice'...


...but I don't play at being an economist...
I simply study God's Word, and...NO SURPRISE,
WHAT GOD SAYS, HAPPENS Very Happy


Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  Ciggy on Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:40 am

Trust an insane old gasbag like Lilly to turn interesting cool info about standing stones, into boring spam.
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:43 am

true lilly wrote:The 3 Lead Stories now -


Steve Jobs, the geek who inherited the earth,
made plenty of mistakes in business and at home,
for reasons that defy analysis or common sense.
Picture: Getty

Read More

Schoolboy in Bali prison hell

Cindy Wockner, Komang Suriadi
A 14-YEAR-OLD Australian boy faces years in jail
after being arrested for possessing marijuana
while on holidays with his parents.


Name of child rapist hidden by courts

Elissa Hunt
ONE of the nation's worst paedophiles
is being allowed to go shopping and socialising,
despite being a danger to the public.
'Ciggy' SCREAMS!!! 'Billy' SCREAMS!!! 'They' ALL SCREAM!!!



LIES!










...And...KEEPS SENDING PEOPLE BROKE with
HIS FINANCIAL/REAL Estate 'advice'...




...but I don't play at being an economist...
I simply study God's Word, and...NO SURPRISE,
WHAT GOD SAYS, HAPPENS Very Happy




Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia



WHO SHOVES WHAT RELIGION DOWN THE WORLD'S THROAT,
LIKE A DEADLY POISON APPLE?

ALL "YOU" WEB of LYING NET HEADS WHO PROMOTE
CHILD PORN, 'as' 'art', and WHO ATTACK "YOUR"
SURVIVING VICTIMS FOR TELLING "YOU" IT WILL KILL "YOU"
IF "YOU" DON'T SERIOUSLY, GENUINELY REPENT.



true lilly wrote:Like I've mentioned, if I post it, it's worth paying attention to, and,
like I've mentioned, when I started this thread, there were not, nearly
5000 "BEAR" stories in the news...

BEAR in news again. TIN TIN R U There??

Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

No wonder "tintin's" run away, and readers are leaving in droves.
When you Google:
tintin australia the biggest secret david icke,
THIS IS THE FIRST OFFERING -


The NEWS behind the NEWS. - Page 43 - David Icke's Official Forumsforum.davidicke.comMain ForumsToday's News
10 posts - 3 authors - Last post: 28 Oct 2007
That is the UNOFFICIAL national song of Australia.
Frank baum ... AUSTRALIA is the BIG SECRET. tintin is offline ...
Find More Posts by tintin ...


THIS IS THE SECOND -

BEAR in news again. TIN TIN R U There?? - David Icke's Official Forumswww.davidicke.com › ... › Main ForumsToday's News
9 posts - 4 authors - Last post: 19 Mar 2008
NEMO is located in AUSTRALIA. The TINTIN album about the MAGPIE is ...

NOT 'David Icke's' GREAT DECEPTION.
true lilly wrote:Grizzly Killed After
DNA Links to 2nd Mauling

279 related articles

Bear chases dog into Pennsylvania home, attacks couple
CNN - 332 related articles

Market Nears Bear Territory
Wall Street Journal - 4132 related articles

4132
332
279
=
4743
And the telling thing is, that "tintin" MAULED HIMSELF,
when HE SET OUT TO LIE & DECEIVE, and CAME TO,
MY HOME FOR 3 WEEKS, to personally look for a way
TO MAUL ME, BECAUSE HE KNEW I DIDN'T LIE,
ABOUT GOD'S WORD REVEALING THE SAVING TRUTH.
avatar
true lilly

Posts : 6205
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 56
Location : VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA

View user profile

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Australian Aborigines the first astronomers

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 10:46 am

Australian Aborigines the first astronomers
Posted on September 20, 2010 by Deskarati

Rock engravings at Ngaut Ngaut, South Australia, which are said to
represent lunar cycles. There are many examples like this throughout
Australia which suggest that astronomy is an important part of many
Australian Aboriginal cultures.

An Australian study has uncovered signs that the country’s ancient
Aborigines may have been the world’s first stargazers, pre-dating
Stonehenge and Egypt’s pyramids by thousands of years.


Ray Norris said widespread and detailed knowledge of the stars had
been passed down through the generations by Aborigines, whose history
dates back tens of millennia, in traditional songs and stories.

“We know there’s lots of stories about the sky: songs, legends,
myths,” said Norris, an astronomer for Australia’s science agency, the
Commonwealth Scientific and Research Organisation (CSIRO).


Star-gazing for food

“We wondered how much further does it go than that. It turns out also
people used the sky for navigation, time-keeping, to mark out the
seasons, so it’s very practical.


“People were nomadic so when Pleiades (the Seven Sisters star
cluster) was up they would move to where the nuts and berries are.
Another sign and it would be time to move to the rivers to fish for
barramundi, and so on.”

Norris, who has studied Aboriginal culture and historical accounts by
white settlers, and made several trips to Arnhem Land in Australia’s
remote Outback, said his research also revealed more detailed
astronomical thought.

Figuring out an eclipse

“Clearly some thinker in the past has been sitting down in the bush,
watching an eclipse and trying to figure out how it works,” he said,
giving one example.

“Those thoughts are then encoded in the songs and ceremonies.
If you
take a lunar eclipse, the story in Arnhem Land is it’s the Sun Woman and
Moon Man making love, and when they make love the body of one covers
the other.”

Norris is now searching for evidence that would put a date on
Aboriginal astronomy, such as a rock-carving of a meteor strike or
comet.

Establishing a beginning date

He is confident the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain’s astronomy-linked Stonehenge, which is estimated at
3,100 BC, around the age of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

“We’ve established there is all this astronomy, what I don’t know is
how far back this goes. If it goes back 10,000 or 20,000 years, that
makes (Aborigines) the world’s first astronomers,”
he said.

via
Australian Aborigines the first astronomers | COSMOS magazine.
___________________________________________________________

The thing is, THEY KNOW IT GOES BACK MUCH FURTHER.
It's just that we need to slowly ease the world into feeling like
they are part of the discovery, rather than feeling like dills.

Oh, and I think it was palomino who first posted this, way back then.




Researchers are confident
the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain's astronomy-linked Stonehenge.
(AAP)
avatar
true lilly

Posts : 6205
Join date : 2010-01-02
Age : 56
Location : VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA

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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:00 am


Aboriginal people believe

we have been here "forever".
According to current scientific
theories,
it is thought that Aborigines have
occupied Australia
for over 60,000 years -
and possibly more than 100,000 years.

http://aboriginalart.com.au/culture/tourism2.html
avatar
true lilly

Posts : 6205
Join date : 2010-01-02
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:31 am

WANJINA...the tin foil hat brigade only want to see 'spacemen',
in everything...but come on, these are simply, Mighty, Big, Hairy,
White Freckled Skinned, Red Heads...The Tribe of BENJAMIN...
also, Female Wanjina are very rare, as BENJAMIN nearly became
extinct. Sex crazed, immorally, cruelly, unhealthily so, the rest of
The Tribes of Israel banned intermarriage with them, but so that
they didn't die out (God keeping His Promise), they took women
not of Israel, as wives.



Judges - Chapter 21

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=21&t=KJV#14
And they said 559 , [There must be] an inheritance 3425 for them that be escaped 6413 of Benjamin 1144, that a tribe 7626 be not destroyed 4229 out of Israel 3478.


Howbeit we may 3201 not give 5414 them wives 802 of our daughters 1323: for the children 1121 of Israel 3478 have sworn 7650 , saying 559 , Cursed 779 [be] he that giveth 5414 a wife 802 to Benjamin 1144.


Then they said 559 , Behold, [there is] a feast 2282 of the LORD 3068 in Shiloh 7887 yearly 3117 3117 [in a place] which [is] on the north side 6828 of Bethel 1008, on the east side 4217 8121 of the highway 4546 that goeth up 5927 from Bethel 1008 to Shechem 7927, and on the south 5045 of Lebonah 3829.


Therefore they commanded 6680 the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144, saying 559 , Go 3212 and lie in wait 693 in the vineyards 3754;

And see 7200 , and, behold, if the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887 come out 3318 to dance 2342 in dances 4246, then come ye out 3318 of the vineyards 3754, and catch 2414 you every man 376 his wife 802 of the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887, and go 1980 to the land 776 of Benjamin 1144.

And it shall be, when their fathers 1 or their brethren 251 come 935 unto us to complain 7378 , that we will say 559 unto them, Be favourable 2603 unto them for our sakes: because we reserved 3947 not to each man 376 his wife 802 in the war 4421: for ye did not give 5414 unto them at this time 6256, [that] ye should be guilty 816 .


And the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144 did so 6213 , and took 5375 [them] wives 802, according to their number 4557, of them that danced 2342 , whom they caught 1497 : and they went 3212 and returned 7725 unto their inheritance 5159, and repaired 1129 the cities 5892, and dwelt 3427 in them.


And the children 1121 of Israel 3478 departed 1980 thence at that time 6256, every man 376 to his tribe 7626 and to his family 4940, and they went out 3318 from thence every man 376 to his inheritance 5159.


In those days 3117 [there was] no king 4428 in Israel 3478: every man 376 did 6213 [that which was] right 3477 in his own eyes 5869.

_____________________________________________________
Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin...

...can't you hear the same name, travel over many ages, and tongues,
and still belong to the same type of people described...

Aboriginal people believe

we have been here "forever".

According to current scientific
theories,
it is thought that Aborigines have
occupied Australia
for over 60,000 years -
and possibly
more than 100,000 years.
avatar
true lilly

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Age : 56
Location : VICTORIA, AUSTRALIA

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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:46 am

This is in the News today, BBC News, but it's over a month, over 40 years, over 200 years,
and much, much older 'news', that like so much more truly ancient Australian History, 'they',
at
David Icke Official Forums, like the rest of The CONspiracy industry,
dare not, post, let alone, honestly discuss. Because, it is only one of
countless real world proofs, that when God described, ALL the world, ALL
the earth, All peoples, FROM THE BEGINNING, that is what He meant.


6 October 2011
Last updated at 02:18 GMT
Aboriginal Stonehenge:
Stargazing in ancient Australia


By Stephanie Hegarty
BBC World Service


Continue reading the main story

An egg-shaped ring of standing stones in Australia
could prove to be older than Britain's Stonehenge - and it may show that
ancient Aboriginal cultures had a deep understanding of the movements of the stars.


Fifty metres wide and containing more than 100 basalt boulders,
the site of
Wurdi Youang in Victoria was noted by European
settlers two centuries ago,
and charted by archaeologists in 1977,

but only now is its purpose being rediscovered.


It is thought the site was built by the Wadda Wurrung people -
the traditional inhabitants of the area. All understanding of the
rocks' significance was lost, however, when traditional language and
practices were banned at the beginning of the 20th Century.


Now a team of archaeologists, astronomers and Aboriginal advisers
is reclaiming that knowledge.


They have discovered that waist-high boulders at the tip of
the egg-shaped point along the ring to the position on the horizon
where the sun sets at the summer and winter solstice - the longest
and shortest day of the year.


“Start Quote
<blockquote>It is interesting to know how far back people were doing astronomy,
if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge”

</blockquote> Prof Ray Norris
Astrophysicist



The axis from top to bottom points towards the equinox -
when the length of day equals night.


At Stonehenge, the sun aligns instead with gaps in the stones
on these key dates in the solar calendar.


The probability that layout of Wurdi Youang is a coincidence
is miniscule, argues Ray Norris, a British astrophysicist at Australia's
national science agency, who is leading the investigation.


Prof Norris and his Aboriginal partners used Nasa technology
to measure the position of each rock in relation to the sun, and
to demonstrate the connection with the solstices and equinox.


"It's truly special because
a lot of people don't take account of Aboriginal science,"

says Reg Abrahams, an Aboriginal adviser working with Prof Norris.


Giant emu
As happened with Stonehenge, the discovery could change the
way people view early societies. It is only recently that it has been
demonstrated that Aboriginal societies could count beyond five or six.


"This is the first time we have been able to show that,
as well as being interested in the position of the sun,
they were making astronomical measurements,"
says Prof Norris,
who is also a faculty member at the School of Indigenous Studies
at Macquarie University in Sydney.



This photo of the emu in the sky by an aboriginal rock carving
was sent to every school in Australia



Other studies by Prof Norris, of Aboriginal songs and stories,
have also indicated a clear understanding of the movements of the sun,
moon and stars.


Indigenous customs vary among groups across Australia, but
one story that appears in many local traditions is
the tale of a great emu that sits in the sky.


The emu, which can be seen in the southern hemisphere during
April and May, is a shape made by the dark patches of the Milky Way.


Its appearance coincides with laying season of the wild emu
and for the storytellers it is a sign to start collecting eggs.


Prompted by historian Hugh Cairns, Prof Norris examined and
photographed an emu-shaped rock carving in Kuring-Gai Chase National
Park, near Sydney, which cleverly mirrors the celestial animal-like shape.

During the southern autumn, the constellation
is positioned above the rock
with the bird shape almost perfectly reflected
by the engraving.


Intellectual leap
Other stories show more complex,
intellectual understanding of the universe.


In the case of the solar eclipse, the Walpiri people in the Northern Territory
tell the story of a sun-woman who pursues a moon-man.
When she catches him the two become husband and wife
together causing a solar eclipse.


The idea that the solar eclipse is caused by the moon moving
in front of the sun is something only widely accepted by western
scientists in the 16th Century.


"This is not about balls of flames going out,
it's about one body moving in front of the other,"

says Prof Norris. "That is a giant intellectual leap."


Since solar eclipses are rare, the survival of this story,
passed down through generations,
also shows a remarkable continuity of learning.


These discoveries play a crucial role in helping
Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians
understand just how intellectually
advanced their ancient society was.


"This discovery has huge significance for understanding the
amazing ability of this culture that is maligned," says Janet Mooney,
head of Indigenous Australian Studies at Sydney University.


"It makes not only me, as an Aboriginal person,
but a lot of Aboriginal people around Australia very proud."


She hopes to be able to tell her students of
an aboriginal site more ancient than Stonehenge.


Continue reading the main story Aboriginal cultures

  • Australia's indigenous Aboriginal population make up 470,000 of the country's 21 million population
  • There are more than 400 separate Aboriginal traditions in Australia but they share many beliefs
  • All aboriginal cultures believe in the Dreaming, an expression
    for man's relationship to the spiritual natural and moral elements of
    the world

  • A Dreaming is a story owned by a particular tribe that tells the story of creation
Until it is dated however, Wurdi Youang could be anywhere from 200 to 20,000 years old.

Aboriginal stone structures in the region have a vast age
range and are very difficult to date. Many of the smaller rock sites
that have been found, such as shelters and cooking areas, have been
moved over time by natural and human forces.


But given the size of the stones at Wurdi Youang and how
deeply they are entrenched in the ground it is more likely they have
been there for thousands of years, archaeologists say.


Dating requires archaeologists to test the soil under the
rocks to see when it was last exposed to sunlight and the team hope to
be able to do this in the next few months.


But Prof Norris believes he has already proven the real value of the stone circle.

"It is interesting to know how far back people were doing
astronomy, if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge," he
says.


"But it is not quite as interesting to my mind as whether the
Aboriginal people were doing real astronomy before British contact.
That really tells us a lot about what kind of culture it is."


Reach for the Stars - Aboriginal Astronomy was produced by Robert Cockburn and broadcast by Discovery for BBC World Service. Listen the radio documentary here
___________________________________________________
Good readers, this was my playground, growing up. It caused me to ask these questions,
about this glorious, truly ancient land's, truly ancient history, even as a child, yet despite
always getting the 'accepted', stock fob off's, 'something' always told
me that's what they were. Simple answers given to a child, as if being a
child made one simple. And so I kept, looking, asking, thinking about
answers given, and why they were given, when obviously,
so many of those 'accepted' answers, contradicted other 'accepted'
answers. Until now at a mature age, having enjoyed an 'interesting'
life, moving around a lot of this country, amongst many cultural and
social groups, from farming to politics, and much in between
and on the fringes, I found that when removing the contradictions,
what we are left with, is, what God described, from the beginning.

true lilly wrote:Another Sign to LOCATE Lands
Described in Holy Scripture...


NO ONE can simply walk up to
"quails" or "pheasants"
and collect more than they can eat,
but in ONE AREA on Earth they CAN, STILL,
gather the most tasty of birds...


Mutton Birds

Aboriginal people still harvest the mutton
birds. Our catch and sales are dependent
on the sustainability of the harvest. Mutton
birds are a delicacy to eat, with a rich oily
flavour unlike any other.



The short-tailed shearwater of Griffiths Island
(Puffinus tenuirostiris - Tasmanian Shearwater)
is commonly called the 'mutton bird'.

Given the name 'mutton bird'
by early settlers of Port Fairy
of its fatty flesh, the shearwater
was hunted as a food and oil source.

Today the shearwater
is totally protected in Victoria.


The journey, of about 15,000 km, passes
New Zealand and Japan
and is completed in only two months.

The return journey follows the coast of
North America to California,
then south-west across the Pacific.
Prevailing winds aid their flight for most of the journey
but on the final leg, from the central Pacific,
the birds battle across south-east winds
.

They return to their nesting grounds exhausted...
http://www.port-fairy.com/shearwaters.htm


Ferley Gardner,
Tasmanian Aboriginal Elder...
...One of the highlights of her childhood was
when her family would pack up everything each year
and travel to Big Dog Island or Babel Island
for the mutton bird season.

...COLLECTING BIRDS ON BABEL ISLAND ...

http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Tr...s/s1045602.htm
And all anyone has to do to see it, is get over that patently absurd,
insanely too short, only recently agreed on, "out of Egypt" lie.
true lilly wrote:Australian Aborigines the first astronomers
Posted on September 20, 2010 by Deskarati

Rock engravings at Ngaut Ngaut, South Australia, which are said to
represent lunar cycles. There are many examples like this throughout
Australia which suggest that astronomy is an important part of many
Australian Aboriginal cultures.

An Australian study has uncovered signs that the country’s ancient
Aborigines may have been the world’s first stargazers, pre-dating
Stonehenge and Egypt’s pyramids by thousands of years.


Ray Norris said widespread and detailed knowledge of the stars had
been passed down through the generations by Aborigines, whose history
dates back tens of millennia, in traditional songs and stories.

“We know there’s lots of stories about the sky: songs, legends,
myths,” said Norris, an astronomer for Australia’s science agency, the
Commonwealth Scientific and Research Organisation (CSIRO).


Star-gazing for food

“We wondered how much further does it go than that. It turns out also
people used the sky for navigation, time-keeping, to mark out the
seasons, so it’s very practical.


“People were nomadic so when Pleiades (the Seven Sisters star
cluster) was up they would move to where the nuts and berries are.
Another sign and it would be time to move to the rivers to fish for
barramundi, and so on.”

Norris, who has studied Aboriginal culture and historical accounts by
white settlers, and made several trips to Arnhem Land in Australia’s
remote Outback, said his research also revealed more detailed
astronomical thought.

Figuring out an eclipse

“Clearly some thinker in the past has been sitting down in the bush,
watching an eclipse and trying to figure out how it works,” he said,
giving one example.

“Those thoughts are then encoded in the songs and ceremonies.
If you
take a lunar eclipse, the story in Arnhem Land is it’s the Sun Woman and
Moon Man making love, and when they make love the body of one covers
the other.”

Norris is now searching for evidence that would put a date on
Aboriginal astronomy, such as a rock-carving of a meteor strike or
comet.

Establishing a beginning date

He is confident the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain’s astronomy-linked Stonehenge, which is estimated at
3,100 BC, around the age of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

“We’ve established there is all this astronomy, what I don’t know is
how far back this goes. If it goes back 10,000 or 20,000 years, that
makes (Aborigines) the world’s first astronomers,”
he said.

via
Australian Aborigines the first astronomers | COSMOS magazine.
___________________________________________________________

The thing is, THEY KNOW IT GOES BACK MUCH FURTHER.
It's just that we need to slowly ease the world into feeling like
they are part of the discovery, rather than feeling like dills.

Oh, and I think it was palomino who first posted this, way back then.




Researchers are confident
the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain's astronomy-linked Stonehenge.
(AAP)

WANJINA...the tin foil hat brigade only want to see 'spacemen',
in everything...but come on, these are simply, Mighty, Big, Hairy,
White Freckled Skinned, Red Heads...The Tribe of BENJAMIN...
also, Female Wanjina are very rare, as BENJAMIN nearly became
extinct. Sex crazed, immorally, cruelly, unhealthily so, the rest of
The Tribes of Israel banned intermarriage with them, but so that
they didn't die out (God keeping His Promise), they took women
not of Israel, as wives.






Judges - Chapter 21


http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=21&t=KJV#14

And they said 559 , [There must be] an inheritance 3425 for them that be escaped 6413 of Benjamin 1144, that a tribe 7626 be not destroyed 4229 out of Israel 3478.


Howbeit we may 3201 not give 5414 them wives 802 of our daughters 1323: for the children 1121 of Israel 3478 have sworn 7650 , saying 559 , Cursed 779 [be] he that giveth 5414 a wife 802 to Benjamin 1144.


Then they said 559 , Behold, [there is] a feast 2282 of the LORD 3068 in Shiloh 7887 yearly 3117 3117 [in a place] which [is] on the north side 6828 of Bethel 1008, on the east side 4217 8121 of the highway 4546 that goeth up 5927 from Bethel 1008 to Shechem 7927, and on the south 5045 of Lebonah 3829.


Therefore they commanded 6680 the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144, saying 559 , Go 3212 and lie in wait 693 in the vineyards 3754;

And see 7200 , and, behold, if the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887 come out 3318 to dance 2342 in dances 4246, then come ye out 3318 of the vineyards 3754, and catch 2414 you every man 376 his wife 802 of the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887, and go 1980 to the land 776 of Benjamin 1144.

And it shall be, when their fathers 1 or their brethren 251 come 935 unto us to complain 7378 , that we will say 559 unto them, Be favourable 2603 unto them for our sakes: because we reserved 3947 not to each man 376 his wife 802 in the war 4421: for ye did not give 5414 unto them at this time 6256, [that] ye should be guilty 816 .


And the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144 did so 6213 , and took 5375 [them] wives 802, according to their number 4557, of them that danced 2342 , whom they caught 1497 : and they went 3212 and returned 7725 unto their inheritance 5159, and repaired 1129 the cities 5892, and dwelt 3427 in them.


And the children 1121 of Israel 3478 departed 1980 thence at that time 6256, every man 376 to his tribe 7626 and to his family 4940, and they went out 3318 from thence every man 376 to his inheritance 5159.


In those days 3117 [there was] no king 4428 in Israel 3478: every man 376 did 6213 [that which was] right 3477 in his own eyes 5869.


_____________________________________________________
Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin...


...can't you hear the same name, travel over many ages, and tongues,
and still belong to the same type of people described...



Aboriginal people believe

we have been here "forever".

According to current scientific
theories,
it is thought that Aborigines have
occupied Australia
for over 60,000 years -
and possibly
more than 100,000 years.

true lilly wrote:

PERU...pooped all over anything in Egypt...
...pooped all over Israel...Israel walked...and all that power...
dried up...then...even greater than all that was...everywhere,
all over the Americas...was built in OZ...then...in their human
pride...Israel forgot God...The Source of all that and more...and...
so...OZ was UTTERLY DEVASTATED...and Israel headed north...
and, scattered, mixed and mingled...over all the world...again...
to start re-gathering...some few hundred years ago...Back in...
The Home Land...promised...preserved...in O'Zion...to again...
better than ever...anywhere...anytime...Re-Plant & Re-Build...



Ancient cave paintings in...not OZ...



Ancient cave paintings in Patagonia, southern Argentina



...have a real, close, look...
http://www.zazzle.com.au/world_map_upside_down_postcard-239671036251018558

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true lilly

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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:51 pm

Poor Ciggy just can't help being wrong...again...
and again... and again ... oh and... psst... you'd need,
oh, a million of me, going 24/7, and I still wouldn't come close to
catching up, let alone keeping up, with the entire world wide web
of 'you mob', repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeating the
same tired old, long ago disproven myths and out right bald faced
lies, that have kept, and now stepped up, bloody slaughters, wars,
and so called revolutions...so called because they do, revolve in a
continual cycle of lies people kill over.

So, Ciggy, how's those American & Euro dollars going...oh that's right,
they are going, off investing in Australia...and our mates who reinvest
in Australia, like China...no matter how much you mob have tried to
talk us down...

Analysts wary but market surges

Jeff Whalley
AUSTRALIA'S share market has gained $45 billion
in the biggest one-day rally in almost three years,
surging 3.65 per cent.


Real Estate

New homes for struggling families
MORE than 400 new houses and flats
will be built across the state to
provide subsidised accommodation
for households on low incomes.


...but don't worry, we know what you mob
are really worried about the world discovering...
...about you mob...and why you lie, lie, lie, lie away...
...to where the Wise and Just Living Don't go...yeah,
that was intended to be oxymoronic, for you mob of
CONdradictory Morons Razz

Spamming Matildaby Ciggy
BTW, you COULD just write and stick to, your own threads
of the same old, same old, myths and popular lies...but...
you CAN'T, because you just have to spam your shit, any old
shit, over the top of what you are terrified folk will read, and,
learn and understand about your PLOT.
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  Ciggy on Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:44 pm

Gasbag.
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  Billy Ruben on Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:54 pm

Ciggy wrote:Trust an insane old gasbag like Lilly to turn interesting cool info about standing stones, into boring spam.

This is what she does,she hates enlightenment,beauty.Her "Beautiful" thread lasted two pages before she spoilt it with Tintin rants.She's her own "turd in the puchbowel".
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  Billy Ruben on Thu Oct 06, 2011 3:56 pm

true lilly wrote:'Billy Ruben' claims to be part Australian
Aboriginal. 'Billy Ruben' should apologise for trashing 'his' most
ancient culture, in order to suck up to the White, Northern Invaders,
and betray 'his' peoples country, heritage, history, for 'his' personal,
worldly, lusts and desires.

That's a bit personal.Are you hinting that I should pack a musket and take on the Redcoats?
Bit late for that,they wear blue now and have semi automatics.
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:51 pm

true lilly wrote:This is in the News today, BBC News, but it's over a month, over 40 years, over 200 years,
and much, much older 'news', that like so much more truly ancient Australian History, 'they',
at David Icke Official Forums, like the rest of The CONspiracy industry, dare not, post, let alone, honestly discuss. Because, it is only one of countless real world proofs, that when God described, ALL the world, ALL the earth, All peoples, FROM THE BEGINNING, that is what He meant.


DAZZLING BLUE
http://youtu.be/muJLjuq8Iuk
Truth or lie, the silence is revealing
An empty sky, a hidden mound of stone
But the CAT scan's eye sees what the heart's concealing
Now-a-days, when everything is known

Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true
But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue
Dazzling blue

Miles apart, though the miles can't measure distance
Worlds apart on a rainy afternoon
But the road gets dirty and it offers no resistance
So turn your amp up and play your lonesome tune

Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true
But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue
Dazzling blue

Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen
To make a marriage bed
And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through
And dream our dreams of dazzling blue

Sweet July, and we drove the Montauk Highway
And walked along the cliffs above the sea
And we wondered why, and imagined it was someday
And that is how the future came to be

Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen
To make a marriage bed
And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through
And dream our dreams of dazzling blue


6 October 2011
Last updated at 02:18 GMT
Aboriginal Stonehenge:
Stargazing in ancient Australia


By Stephanie Hegarty
BBC World Service


Continue reading the main story

An egg-shaped ring of standing stones in Australia
could prove to be older than Britain's Stonehenge - and it may show that
ancient Aboriginal cultures had a deep understanding of the movements of the stars.


Fifty metres wide and containing more than 100 basalt boulders,
the site of
Wurdi Youang in Victoria was noted by European
settlers two centuries ago,
and charted by archaeologists in 1977,

but only now is its purpose being rediscovered.


It is thought the site was built by the Wadda Wurrung people -
the traditional inhabitants of the area. All understanding of the
rocks' significance was lost, however, when traditional language and
practices were banned at the beginning of the 20th Century.


Now a team of archaeologists, astronomers and Aboriginal advisers
is reclaiming that knowledge.


They have discovered that waist-high boulders at the tip of
the egg-shaped point along the ring to the position on the horizon
where the sun sets at the summer and winter solstice - the longest
and shortest day of the year.


“Start Quote
<blockquote>It is interesting to know how far back people were doing astronomy,
if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge”

</blockquote> Prof Ray Norris
Astrophysicist



The axis from top to bottom points towards the equinox -
when the length of day equals night.


At Stonehenge, the sun aligns instead with gaps in the stones
on these key dates in the solar calendar.


The probability that layout of Wurdi Youang is a coincidence
is miniscule, argues Ray Norris, a British astrophysicist at Australia's
national science agency, who is leading the investigation.


Prof Norris and his Aboriginal partners used Nasa technology
to measure the position of each rock in relation to the sun, and
to demonstrate the connection with the solstices and equinox.


"It's truly special because
a lot of people don't take account of Aboriginal science,"

says Reg Abrahams, an Aboriginal adviser working with Prof Norris.


Giant emu
As happened with Stonehenge, the discovery could change the
way people view early societies. It is only recently that it has been
demonstrated that Aboriginal societies could count beyond five or six.


"This is the first time we have been able to show that,
as well as being interested in the position of the sun,
they were making astronomical measurements,"
says Prof Norris,
who is also a faculty member at the School of Indigenous Studies
at Macquarie University in Sydney.



This photo of the emu in the sky by an aboriginal rock carving
was sent to every school in Australia



Other studies by Prof Norris, of Aboriginal songs and stories,
have also indicated a clear understanding of the movements of the sun,
moon and stars.


Indigenous customs vary among groups across Australia, but
one story that appears in many local traditions is
the tale of a great emu that sits in the sky.


The emu, which can be seen in the southern hemisphere during
April and May, is a shape made by the dark patches of the Milky Way.


Its appearance coincides with laying season of the wild emu
and for the storytellers it is a sign to start collecting eggs.


Prompted by historian Hugh Cairns, Prof Norris examined and
photographed an emu-shaped rock carving in Kuring-Gai Chase National
Park, near Sydney, which cleverly mirrors the celestial animal-like shape.

During the southern autumn, the constellation
is positioned above the rock
with the bird shape almost perfectly reflected
by the engraving.


Intellectual leap
Other stories show more complex,
intellectual understanding of the universe.


In the case of the solar eclipse, the Walpiri people in the Northern Territory
tell the story of a sun-woman who pursues a moon-man.
When she catches him the two become husband and wife
together causing a solar eclipse.


The idea that the solar eclipse is caused by the moon moving
in front of the sun is something only widely accepted by western
scientists in the 16th Century.


"This is not about balls of flames going out,
it's about one body moving in front of the other,"

says Prof Norris. "That is a giant intellectual leap."


Since solar eclipses are rare, the survival of this story,
passed down through generations,
also shows a remarkable continuity of learning.


These discoveries play a crucial role in helping
Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians
understand just how intellectually
advanced their ancient society was.


"This discovery has huge significance for understanding the
amazing ability of this culture that is maligned," says Janet Mooney,
head of Indigenous Australian Studies at Sydney University.


"It makes not only me, as an Aboriginal person,
but a lot of Aboriginal people around Australia very proud."


She hopes to be able to tell her students of
an aboriginal site more ancient than Stonehenge.


Continue reading the main story Aboriginal cultures

  • Australia's indigenous Aboriginal population make up 470,000 of the country's 21 million population
  • There are more than 400 separate Aboriginal traditions in Australia but they share many beliefs
  • All aboriginal cultures believe in the Dreaming, an expression
    for man's relationship to the spiritual natural and moral elements of
    the world

  • A Dreaming is a story owned by a particular tribe that tells the story of creation
Until it is dated however, Wurdi Youang could be anywhere from 200 to 20,000 years old.

Aboriginal stone structures in the region have a vast age
range and are very difficult to date. Many of the smaller rock sites
that have been found, such as shelters and cooking areas, have been
moved over time by natural and human forces.


But given the size of the stones at Wurdi Youang and how
deeply they are entrenched in the ground it is more likely they have
been there for thousands of years, archaeologists say.


Dating requires archaeologists to test the soil under the
rocks to see when it was last exposed to sunlight and the team hope to
be able to do this in the next few months.


But Prof Norris believes he has already proven the real value of the stone circle.

"It is interesting to know how far back people were doing
astronomy, if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge," he
says.


"But it is not quite as interesting to my mind as whether the
Aboriginal people were doing real astronomy before British contact.
That really tells us a lot about what kind of culture it is."


Reach for the Stars - Aboriginal Astronomy was produced by Robert Cockburn and broadcast by Discovery for BBC World Service. Listen the radio documentary here
___________________________________________________
Good readers, this was my playground, growing up. It caused me to ask these questions,
about this glorious, truly ancient land's, truly ancient history, even as a child, yet despite
always getting the 'accepted', stock fob off's, 'something' always told
me that's what they were. Simple answers given to a child, as if being a
child made one simple. And so I kept, looking, asking, thinking about
answers given, and why they were given, when obviously,
so many of those 'accepted' answers, contradicted other 'accepted'
answers. Until now at a mature age, having enjoyed an 'interesting'
life, moving around a lot of this country, amongst many cultural and
social groups, from farming to politics, and much in between
and on the fringes, I found that when removing the contradictions,
what we are left with, is, what God described, from the beginning.


DAZZLING BLUE
http://youtu.be/muJLjuq8Iuk
Truth or lie, the silence is revealing

An empty sky, a hidden mound of stone

But the CAT scan's eye sees what the heart's concealing

Now-a-days, when everything is known



Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true

But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue

Dazzling blue



Miles apart, though the miles can't measure distance

Worlds apart on a rainy afternoon

But the road gets dirty and it offers no resistance

So turn your amp up and play your lonesome tune



Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true

But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue

Dazzling blue



Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen

To make a marriage bed

And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through

And dream our dreams of dazzling blue



Sweet July, and we drove the Montauk Highway

And walked along the cliffs above the sea

And we wondered why, and imagined it was someday

And that is how the future came to be



Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen

To make a marriage bed

And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through

And dream our dreams of dazzling blue

true lilly wrote:Another Sign to LOCATE Lands
Described in Holy Scripture...


NO ONE can simply walk up to
"quails" or "pheasants"
and collect more than they can eat,
but in ONE AREA on Earth they CAN, STILL,
gather the most tasty of birds...


Mutton Birds

Aboriginal people still harvest the mutton
birds. Our catch and sales are dependent
on the sustainability of the harvest. Mutton
birds are a delicacy to eat, with a rich oily
flavour unlike any other.



The short-tailed shearwater of Griffiths Island
(Puffinus tenuirostiris - Tasmanian Shearwater)
is commonly called the 'mutton bird'.

Given the name 'mutton bird'
by early settlers of Port Fairy
of its fatty flesh, the shearwater
was hunted as a food and oil source.

Today the shearwater
is totally protected in Victoria.


The journey, of about 15,000 km, passes
New Zealand and Japan
and is completed in only two months.

The return journey follows the coast of
North America to California,
then south-west across the Pacific.
Prevailing winds aid their flight for most of the journey
but on the final leg, from the central Pacific,
the birds battle across south-east winds
.

They return to their nesting grounds exhausted...
http://www.port-fairy.com/shearwaters.htm


Ferley Gardner,
Tasmanian Aboriginal Elder...
...One of the highlights of her childhood was
when her family would pack up everything each year
and travel to Big Dog Island or Babel Island
for the mutton bird season.

...COLLECTING BIRDS ON BABEL ISLAND ...

http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Tr...s/s1045602.htm
And all anyone has to do to see it, is get over that patently absurd,
insanely too short, only recently agreed on, "out of Egypt" lie.

DAZZLING BLUE
http://youtu.be/muJLjuq8Iuk
Truth or lie, the silence is revealing

An empty sky, a hidden mound of stone

But the CAT scan's eye sees what the heart's concealing

Now-a-days, when everything is known



Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true

But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue

Dazzling blue



Miles apart, though the miles can't measure distance

Worlds apart on a rainy afternoon

But the road gets dirty and it offers no resistance

So turn your amp up and play your lonesome tune



Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true

But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue

Dazzling blue



Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen

To make a marriage bed

And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through

And dream our dreams of dazzling blue



Sweet July, and we drove the Montauk Highway

And walked along the cliffs above the sea

And we wondered why, and imagined it was someday

And that is how the future came to be



Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen

To make a marriage bed

And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through

And dream our dreams of dazzling blue

true lilly wrote:Australian Aborigines the first astronomers
Posted on September 20, 2010 by Deskarati

Rock engravings at Ngaut Ngaut, South Australia, which are said to
represent lunar cycles. There are many examples like this throughout
Australia which suggest that astronomy is an important part of many
Australian Aboriginal cultures.

An Australian study has uncovered signs that the country’s ancient
Aborigines may have been the world’s first stargazers, pre-dating
Stonehenge and Egypt’s pyramids by thousands of years.


Ray Norris said widespread and detailed knowledge of the stars had
been passed down through the generations by Aborigines, whose history
dates back tens of millennia, in traditional songs and stories.

“We know there’s lots of stories about the sky: songs, legends,
myths,” said Norris, an astronomer for Australia’s science agency, the
Commonwealth Scientific and Research Organisation (CSIRO).


Star-gazing for food

“We wondered how much further does it go than that. It turns out also
people used the sky for navigation, time-keeping, to mark out the
seasons, so it’s very practical.


“People were nomadic so when Pleiades (the Seven Sisters star
cluster) was up they would move to where the nuts and berries are.
Another sign and it would be time to move to the rivers to fish for
barramundi, and so on.”

Norris, who has studied Aboriginal culture and historical accounts by
white settlers, and made several trips to Arnhem Land in Australia’s
remote Outback, said his research also revealed more detailed
astronomical thought.

Figuring out an eclipse

“Clearly some thinker in the past has been sitting down in the bush,
watching an eclipse and trying to figure out how it works,” he said,
giving one example.

“Those thoughts are then encoded in the songs and ceremonies.
If you
take a lunar eclipse, the story in Arnhem Land is it’s the Sun Woman and
Moon Man making love, and when they make love the body of one covers
the other.”

Norris is now searching for evidence that would put a date on
Aboriginal astronomy, such as a rock-carving of a meteor strike or
comet.

Establishing a beginning date

He is confident the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain’s astronomy-linked Stonehenge, which is estimated at
3,100 BC, around the age of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

“We’ve established there is all this astronomy, what I don’t know is
how far back this goes. If it goes back 10,000 or 20,000 years, that
makes (Aborigines) the world’s first astronomers,”
he said.

via
Australian Aborigines the first astronomers | COSMOS magazine.
___________________________________________________________
DAZZLING BLUE
http://youtu.be/muJLjuq8Iuk
Truth or lie, the silence is revealing

An empty sky, a hidden mound of stone

But the CAT scan's eye sees what the heart's concealing

Now-a-days, when everything is known



Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true

But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue

Dazzling blue



Miles apart, though the miles can't measure distance

Worlds apart on a rainy afternoon

But the road gets dirty and it offers no resistance

So turn your amp up and play your lonesome tune



Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true

But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue

Dazzling blue



Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen

To make a marriage bed

And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through

And dream our dreams of dazzling blue



Sweet July, and we drove the Montauk Highway

And walked along the cliffs above the sea

And we wondered why, and imagined it was someday

And that is how the future came to be



Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen

To make a marriage bed

And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through

And dream our dreams of dazzling blue


The thing is, THEY KNOW IT GOES BACK MUCH FURTHER.
It's just that we need to slowly ease the world into feeling like
they are part of the discovery, rather than feeling like dills.

Oh, and I think it was palomino who first posted this, way back then.




Researchers are confident
the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain's astronomy-linked Stonehenge.
(AAP)
WANJINA...the tin foil hat brigade only want to see 'spacemen',
in everything...but come on, these are simply, Mighty, Big, Hairy,
White Freckled Skinned, Red Heads...The Tribe of BENJAMIN...
also, Female Wanjina are very rare, as BENJAMIN nearly became
extinct. Sex crazed, immorally, cruelly, unhealthily so, the rest of
The Tribes of Israel banned intermarriage with them, but so that
they didn't die out (God keeping His Promise), they took women
not of Israel, as wives.



Judges - Chapter 21

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=21&t=KJV#14
And they said 559 , [There must be] an inheritance 3425 for them that be escaped 6413 of Benjamin 1144, that a tribe 7626 be not destroyed 4229 out of Israel 3478.


Howbeit we may 3201 not give 5414 them wives 802 of our daughters 1323: for the children 1121 of Israel 3478 have sworn 7650 , saying 559 , Cursed 779 [be] he that giveth 5414 a wife 802 to Benjamin 1144.


Then they said 559 , Behold, [there is] a feast 2282 of the LORD 3068 in Shiloh 7887 yearly 3117 3117 [in a place] which [is] on the north side 6828 of Bethel 1008, on the east side 4217 8121 of the highway 4546 that goeth up 5927 from Bethel 1008 to Shechem 7927, and on the south 5045 of Lebonah 3829.


Therefore they commanded 6680 the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144, saying 559 , Go 3212 and lie in wait 693 in the vineyards 3754;

And see 7200 , and, behold, if the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887 come out 3318 to dance 2342 in dances 4246, then come ye out 3318 of the vineyards 3754, and catch 2414 you every man 376 his wife 802 of the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887, and go 1980 to the land 776 of Benjamin 1144.

And it shall be, when their fathers 1 or their brethren 251 come 935 unto us to complain 7378 , that we will say 559 unto them, Be favourable 2603 unto them for our sakes: because we reserved 3947 not to each man 376 his wife 802 in the war 4421: for ye did not give 5414 unto them at this time 6256, [that] ye should be guilty 816 .


And the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144 did so 6213 , and took 5375 [them] wives 802, according to their number 4557, of them that danced 2342 , whom they caught 1497 : and they went 3212 and returned 7725 unto their inheritance 5159, and repaired 1129 the cities 5892, and dwelt 3427 in them.


And the children 1121 of Israel 3478 departed 1980 thence at that time 6256, every man 376 to his tribe 7626 and to his family 4940, and they went out 3318 from thence every man 376 to his inheritance 5159.


In those days 3117 [there was] no king 4428 in Israel 3478: every man 376 did 6213 [that which was] right 3477 in his own eyes 5869.

_____________________________________________________
Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin...

...can't you hear the same name, travel over many ages, and tongues,
and still belong to the same type of people described...


Aboriginal people believe

we have been here "forever".

According to current scientific
theories,
it is thought that Aborigines have
occupied Australia
for over 60,000 years -
and possibly
more than 100,000 years.
DAZZLING BLUE
http://youtu.be/muJLjuq8Iuk
Truth or lie, the silence is revealing

An empty sky, a hidden mound of stone

But the CAT scan's eye sees what the heart's concealing

Now-a-days, when everything is known



Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true

But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue

Dazzling blue



Miles apart, though the miles can't measure distance

Worlds apart on a rainy afternoon

But the road gets dirty and it offers no resistance

So turn your amp up and play your lonesome tune



Maybe love's an accident, or destiny is true

But you and I were born beneath a star of dazzling blue

Dazzling blue



Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen

To make a marriage bed

And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through

And dream our dreams of dazzling blue



Sweet July, and we drove the Montauk Highway

And walked along the cliffs above the sea

And we wondered why, and imagined it was someday

And that is how the future came to be



Dazzling blue, roses red, fine white linen

To make a marriage bed

And we'll build a wall that nothing can break through

And dream our dreams of dazzling blue
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true lilly

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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  Billy Ruben on Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:10 pm

For those interested in Australian mysteries and folk-tales,consult Rex Gilroy,far more open minded,intelligent and can do the story without the SPAM.

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Billy Ruben

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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:26 am

THE FIRST HOUSES IN AUSTRALIA
home.vicnet.net.au/~aar/housing.htm -
http://home.vicnet.net.au/~aar/housing.htm
18 Oct 1985 – Whoever heard of Aborigines living in stone houses, congregating in villages, ... in western Victoria of the stone remains of these houses in a recent ... The Sydney tribes salted and dried fish and meat and hung it in trees away from dogs. ... burning the land, or "firestick farming", as Rees Jones described it. ...
Aboriginal Village
(13/03/2003)


We’re told that aborigines were nomads. Yet the local Gunditjmara in Western
Victoria claim their ancestors lived in a village. They had eel farms,
and even an eel industry, which exported produce across the country. If
this is true, it would challenge our current understanding of aboriginal
history.

Archaeologist, Dr Heather Builth, set out to
investigate the Gunditjmara’s claims. And remarkably she found a great
deal of evidence to support them…the remains of 100s of huts, more than
75 square kilometres of artificial channels and ponds for farming eels,
and smoking trees for preserving the eels for export to other parts of
Australia.


TRANSCRIPT


Narration: At Lake Condah in western Victoria, there’s a
mystery. We’re told aborigines were nomads. Yet here the aborigines,
claim their ancestors lived in a village. A village so sophisticated,
they farmed eels in these swamps, they processed them and even exported
them across the country. If true it would seriously challenge our
understanding of aboriginal history.

Ken Saunders: We weren’t nomads. We didn’t wander all over the bloody place and gone walkabout. We had an existence here.

Professor
Peter Kershaw found some tantalising evidence in this
snake-and-leech-infested swamp. He took a soil sample from the bottom.
Because soils are laid down gradually, drilling down several metres is
like going back in time.

Professor Peter Kershaw: This is
healthy peat material. It suggests that it’s accumulated under shallow
water and there’s been constant deposition. As we go towards the top
here, you can see it’s getting very kind of fine-grained sediment. It’s
very greasy.

Narration: It’s greasy because the lake was
continually churned up while this soil was being laid…possibly churned
up by human eel farmers.

Professor Peter Kershaw: This doesn’t occur naturally. It had to have some help. People have been here or that is the most likely explanation.

Dr
Heather Builth, found more enticing clues that there could be an
ancient eel farm here. There appeared to be countless artificial
channels crisscrossing this landscape.

Dr Heather Builth:
This has had to be excavated. This channel is artificial channel that
has come through the lava flow through the sheer rock to bring the water
from this swamp into that swamp.

Narration: In fact there
appeared to be artificial ponds here as well. But it was hard to make
sense of all this because the entire area was drained in the 1800s when
the Europeans moved in. But Heather had an idea. She measured up every
little hill and valley in the landscape, entered all the information
into a geography simulation programme and then re-flooded the land on
computer.

That way she could see where all the artificial
channels led. The computer programme revealed a dazzling picture. An
artificial system of ponds connected by canals, covering more than 75
square kilometres of the landscape.

Dr Heather Builth: I
realised there was something pretty clever going on here. The swamps
were joined and there were channels joining the wetlands to the river
and there were channels continuing on to the sea across the whole
length.”

Narration: Heather was starting to believe there
could well have been an ancient eel farm here. Meanwhile, the soil
samples revealed more exciting results when they got back to Peter’s
Monash University lab. Pollens were extracted, and they showed water
plants had suddenly appeared in the record – just what you’d expect if
humans had suddenly constructed an artificial ponding system. But the
most staggering result came when he soil samples were radiocarbon dated.
The artificial ponds it appeared, were created up to 8000 years ago.

Dr Heather Builth: Yeah that is pretty amazing historically, prehistorically in the world about controlling a resource in aquaculture.
Yeah – it could be one of the oldest systems in the world.”

Narration: Of course, none of the scientific discoveries surprised Ken. He says the whole countryside here is dotted with eel traps.

Ken Saunders:
We used to trap eels ourselves and use the eels traps. And some of the
young fellas today still use the eel traps. So the eel traps were part
of our diet. I still eat the bloody things today.

Narration:
The telltale sign of an eel trap is two piles of rocks in straight
lines. Woven basket-like nets were placed in the gap where the water
once flowed.

Dr Heather Builth: This would have come in
here, and understand that it would’ve been about four times as big as
this now, and it would’ve fitted in. There would’ve been a frame here - a
wooden frame and this would’ve gone through the frame like that so it
would’ve been filling up a bit. It was a big enough collar to catch the
eels. So what it meant was they could only come out one at a time and so
someone was here to catch the eels as they came out and grab them bight
them on the back of the neck, kill them put them in the basket.

Narration:
Evidence that 8000 years ago the Gunditjmara had a large-scale eel farm
here was already enough to rock the archaeological establishment. But
what about Ken’s claim that his people actually had an industry, and
were exporting their produce?

Heather had noticed there were a
lot of these trees that had obviously had fires in them. Could it be the
Gunditjmara smoked eels in them, to preserve them for export? She took a
sample deep down where the soil was contaminant-free, to see if a lab
could find traces of eel. But after putting it in the fridge overnight
she was greeted by a remarkable surprise the next morning.

Dr Heather Builth:
The next day, when we went in to open the door, the whole room stank of
smoked eel and that was the eureka moment. And the fact that all these
trees, if people had been using them, that means there was preservation.
Suddenly the whole picture changed. Gunditjmara weren’t just catching
eels; their whole society was based around eels. And that to me was the
proof. That was it.

Narration: This wasn’t just one of the
earliest farming villages…. this was an ancient industry. And that put
the Gunditjmara in a totally different category.

Dr Heather Builth:
A specialisation had developed here of eel production. And these eels
could have gone out long distances and they would have been the currency
these people bargained with. I think what we had here was a
hierarchical structured society. We had chiefs with lots and lots of
power.

Narration: But if this was a village, where did the
inhabitants live? The answer to that lay with these stones scattered
all over the landscape. Many of them seem to lie in circular patterns.
Archaeologists had dismissed them as natural formations, but could they
be the foundations of ancient huts?

To prove that, Heather
painstakingly measured and weighed each of the stones in some of these
structures. And sure enough she found they were too uniform to have been
stacked up by nature.

Graham: This is one of the stone huts?
Heather Builth: This is one of the stone houses.

Narration: They had to have been built by human hands and the most likely explanation is they were dwellings.

Graham: How many stone huts do you think were in this area?

Dr Heather Builth: I have myself have seen hundreds.

Graham: We’re talking about… I mean that’s a village…
Dr. Heather Builth: Yes, we’re talking villages
Graham: Villages!
Heather Builth: Villages

Lindsay Saunders:
You can see there about two metres. By about a metre high. The door
would have been facing east, away from the weather coming in from the
west. This would have housed about two or three people.”

Narration:
This is what the huts might have looked like, based on historical
accounts and the materials that were available. Wooden boughs sat on top
of the stone foundations and they were covered with peat sods for
strength and reeds for waterproofing. What you’re left wondering is…How
did archaeologists miss all this? Heather believes it’s because
everything disappeared very quickly when European farmers moved in.

Dr Heather Builth: A lot of them had a military background and they knew how to get rid of aboriginal people pretty quickly.

Narration: While the scientific discoveries don’t surprise Ken, he hopes they will help his people.

Ken Saunders: If we can get National Heritage Listing – which we will get – we can then rebuild and recreate the fish traps again.

Narration:
The Gunditjmara eel-trap-weaving skills are still being handed down,
and Heather now knows how the eel farms operated. Her science may just
help Ken’s people realise their dream.

Ken Saunders: Well
you couldn’t have a blackfella telling that story. So to prove it we
had to have a white person doing the scientific research to say this is
real.

Topics: Archaeology & History


  • Researcher: Robyn Smith
Story Contacts
Dr Heather Builth
Email

Postal address:

RMB 7460
Coustleys Rd
Homerton
Via Heywood
Victoria 3304
Ph: 03 55272051

Professor Peter Kershaw

Email


Director of the Centre for Palynology and Palaeoecology

Geography & Environmental Science
Monash University
Melbourne
Tel: 03 9905 2927

Ken Saunders

Co-ordinator of Lake Condah Sustainable Development Project

03-55784272
Related Info

Information on the project at Flinders University
true lilly wrote:This is in the News today, BBC News, but it's over a month, over 40 years, over 200 years,
and much, much older 'news', that like so much more truly ancient Australian History, 'they',
at David Icke Official Forums, like the rest of The CONspiracy industry, dare not, post, let alone, honestly discuss. Because, it is only one of countless real world proofs, that when God described, ALL the world, ALL the earth, All peoples, FROM THE BEGINNING, that is what He meant.


6 October 2011
Last updated at 02:18 GMT
Aboriginal Stonehenge:
Stargazing in ancient Australia


By Stephanie Hegarty
BBC World Service


Continue reading the main story

An egg-shaped ring of standing stones in Australia
could prove to be older than Britain's Stonehenge - and it may show that
ancient Aboriginal cultures had a deep understanding of the movements of the stars.


Fifty metres wide and containing more than 100 basalt boulders,
the site of
Wurdi Youang in Victoria was noted by European
settlers two centuries ago,
and charted by archaeologists in 1977,

but only now is its purpose being rediscovered.


It is thought the site was built by the Wadda Wurrung people -
the traditional inhabitants of the area. All understanding of the
rocks' significance was lost, however, when traditional language and
practices were banned at the beginning of the 20th Century.


Now a team of archaeologists, astronomers and Aboriginal advisers
is reclaiming that knowledge.


They have discovered that waist-high boulders at the tip of
the egg-shaped point along the ring to the position on the horizon
where the sun sets at the summer and winter solstice - the longest
and shortest day of the year.


“Start Quote
<blockquote>It is interesting to know how far back people were doing astronomy,
if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge”

</blockquote> Prof Ray Norris
Astrophysicist



The axis from top to bottom points towards the equinox -
when the length of day equals night.


At Stonehenge, the sun aligns instead with gaps in the stones
on these key dates in the solar calendar.


The probability that layout of Wurdi Youang is a coincidence
is miniscule, argues Ray Norris, a British astrophysicist at Australia's
national science agency, who is leading the investigation.


Prof Norris and his Aboriginal partners used Nasa technology
to measure the position of each rock in relation to the sun, and
to demonstrate the connection with the solstices and equinox.


"It's truly special because
a lot of people don't take account of Aboriginal science,"

says Reg Abrahams, an Aboriginal adviser working with Prof Norris.


Giant emu
As happened with Stonehenge, the discovery could change the
way people view early societies. It is only recently that it has been
demonstrated that Aboriginal societies could count beyond five or six.


"This is the first time we have been able to show that,
as well as being interested in the position of the sun,
they were making astronomical measurements,"
says Prof Norris,
who is also a faculty member at the School of Indigenous Studies
at Macquarie University in Sydney.



This photo of the emu in the sky by an aboriginal rock carving
was sent to every school in Australia



Other studies by Prof Norris, of Aboriginal songs and stories,
have also indicated a clear understanding of the movements of the sun,
moon and stars.


Indigenous customs vary among groups across Australia, but
one story that appears in many local traditions is
the tale of a great emu that sits in the sky.


The emu, which can be seen in the southern hemisphere during
April and May, is a shape made by the dark patches of the Milky Way.


Its appearance coincides with laying season of the wild emu
and for the storytellers it is a sign to start collecting eggs.


Prompted by historian Hugh Cairns, Prof Norris examined and
photographed an emu-shaped rock carving in Kuring-Gai Chase National
Park, near Sydney, which cleverly mirrors the celestial animal-like shape.

During the southern autumn, the constellation
is positioned above the rock
with the bird shape almost perfectly reflected
by the engraving.


Intellectual leap
Other stories show more complex,
intellectual understanding of the universe.


In the case of the solar eclipse, the Walpiri people in the Northern Territory
tell the story of a sun-woman who pursues a moon-man.
When she catches him the two become husband and wife
together causing a solar eclipse.


The idea that the solar eclipse is caused by the moon moving
in front of the sun is something only widely accepted by western
scientists in the 16th Century.


"This is not about balls of flames going out,
it's about one body moving in front of the other,"

says Prof Norris. "That is a giant intellectual leap."


Since solar eclipses are rare, the survival of this story,
passed down through generations,
also shows a remarkable continuity of learning.


These discoveries play a crucial role in helping
Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal Australians
understand just how intellectually
advanced their ancient society was.


"This discovery has huge significance for understanding the
amazing ability of this culture that is maligned," says Janet Mooney,
head of Indigenous Australian Studies at Sydney University.


"It makes not only me, as an Aboriginal person,
but a lot of Aboriginal people around Australia very proud."


She hopes to be able to tell her students of
an aboriginal site more ancient than Stonehenge.


Continue reading the main story Aboriginal cultures

  • Australia's indigenous Aboriginal population make up 470,000 of the country's 21 million population
  • There are more than 400 separate Aboriginal traditions in Australia but they share many beliefs
  • All aboriginal cultures believe in the Dreaming, an expression
    for man's relationship to the spiritual natural and moral elements of
    the world

  • A Dreaming is a story owned by a particular tribe that tells the story of creation
Until it is dated however, Wurdi Youang could be anywhere from 200 to 20,000 years old.

Aboriginal stone structures in the region have a vast age
range and are very difficult to date. Many of the smaller rock sites
that have been found, such as shelters and cooking areas, have been
moved over time by natural and human forces.


But given the size of the stones at Wurdi Youang and how
deeply they are entrenched in the ground it is more likely they have
been there for thousands of years, archaeologists say.


Dating requires archaeologists to test the soil under the
rocks to see when it was last exposed to sunlight and the team hope to
be able to do this in the next few months.


But Prof Norris believes he has already proven the real value of the stone circle.

"It is interesting to know how far back people were doing
astronomy, if it is 5,000 years old it would predate Stonehenge," he
says.


"But it is not quite as interesting to my mind as whether the
Aboriginal people were doing real astronomy before British contact.
That really tells us a lot about what kind of culture it is."


Reach for the Stars - Aboriginal Astronomy was produced by Robert Cockburn and broadcast by Discovery for BBC World Service. Listen the radio documentary here
___________________________________________________
Good readers, this was my playground, growing up. It caused me to ask these questions,
about this glorious, truly ancient land's, truly ancient history, even as a child, yet despite
always getting the 'accepted', stock fob off's, 'something' always told
me that's what they were. Simple answers given to a child, as if being a
child made one simple. And so I kept, looking, asking, thinking about
answers given, and why they were given, when obviously,
so many of those 'accepted' answers, contradicted other 'accepted'
answers. Until now at a mature age, having enjoyed an 'interesting'
life, moving around a lot of this country, amongst many cultural and
social groups, from farming to politics, and much in between
and on the fringes, I found that when removing the contradictions,
what we are left with, is, what God described, from the beginning.

true lilly wrote:Another Sign to LOCATE Lands
Described in Holy Scripture...


NO ONE can simply walk up to
"quails" or "pheasants"
and collect more than they can eat,
but in ONE AREA on Earth they CAN, STILL,
gather the most tasty of birds...


Mutton Birds

Aboriginal people still harvest the mutton
birds. Our catch and sales are dependent
on the sustainability of the harvest. Mutton
birds are a delicacy to eat, with a rich oily
flavour unlike any other.



The short-tailed shearwater of Griffiths Island
(Puffinus tenuirostiris - Tasmanian Shearwater)
is commonly called the 'mutton bird'.

Given the name 'mutton bird'
by early settlers of Port Fairy
of its fatty flesh, the shearwater
was hunted as a food and oil source.

Today the shearwater
is totally protected in Victoria.


The journey, of about 15,000 km, passes
New Zealand and Japan
and is completed in only two months.

The return journey follows the coast of
North America to California,
then south-west across the Pacific.
Prevailing winds aid their flight for most of the journey
but on the final leg, from the central Pacific,
the birds battle across south-east winds
.

They return to their nesting grounds exhausted...
http://www.port-fairy.com/shearwaters.htm


Ferley Gardner,
Tasmanian Aboriginal Elder...
...One of the highlights of her childhood was
when her family would pack up everything each year
and travel to Big Dog Island or Babel Island
for the mutton bird season.

...COLLECTING BIRDS ON BABEL ISLAND ...

http://www.abc.net.au/gnt/history/Tr...s/s1045602.htm
And all anyone has to do to see it, is get over that patently absurd,
insanely too short, only recently agreed on, "out of Egypt" lie.
true lilly wrote:Australian Aborigines the first astronomers
Posted on September 20, 2010 by Deskarati

Rock engravings at Ngaut Ngaut, South Australia, which are said to
represent lunar cycles. There are many examples like this throughout
Australia which suggest that astronomy is an important part of many
Australian Aboriginal cultures.

An Australian study has uncovered signs that the country’s ancient
Aborigines may have been the world’s first stargazers, pre-dating
Stonehenge and Egypt’s pyramids by thousands of years.


Ray Norris said widespread and detailed knowledge of the stars had
been passed down through the generations by Aborigines, whose history
dates back tens of millennia, in traditional songs and stories.

“We know there’s lots of stories about the sky: songs, legends,
myths,” said Norris, an astronomer for Australia’s science agency, the
Commonwealth Scientific and Research Organisation (CSIRO).


Star-gazing for food

“We wondered how much further does it go than that. It turns out also
people used the sky for navigation, time-keeping, to mark out the
seasons, so it’s very practical.


“People were nomadic so when Pleiades (the Seven Sisters star
cluster) was up they would move to where the nuts and berries are.
Another sign and it would be time to move to the rivers to fish for
barramundi, and so on.”

Norris, who has studied Aboriginal culture and historical accounts by
white settlers, and made several trips to Arnhem Land in Australia’s
remote Outback, said his research also revealed more detailed
astronomical thought.

Figuring out an eclipse

“Clearly some thinker in the past has been sitting down in the bush,
watching an eclipse and trying to figure out how it works,” he said,
giving one example.

“Those thoughts are then encoded in the songs and ceremonies.
If you
take a lunar eclipse, the story in Arnhem Land is it’s the Sun Woman and
Moon Man making love, and when they make love the body of one covers
the other.”

Norris is now searching for evidence that would put a date on
Aboriginal astronomy, such as a rock-carving of a meteor strike or
comet.

Establishing a beginning date

He is confident the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain’s astronomy-linked Stonehenge, which is estimated at
3,100 BC, around the age of the Great Pyramid of Giza.

“We’ve established there is all this astronomy, what I don’t know is
how far back this goes. If it goes back 10,000 or 20,000 years, that
makes (Aborigines) the world’s first astronomers,”
he said.

via
Australian Aborigines the first astronomers | COSMOS magazine.
___________________________________________________________

The thing is, THEY KNOW IT GOES BACK MUCH FURTHER.
It's just that we need to slowly ease the world into feeling like
they are part of the discovery, rather than feeling like dills.

Oh, and I think it was palomino who first posted this, way back then.




Researchers are confident
the Aborigines pre-dated European stargazers,
including Britain's astronomy-linked Stonehenge.
(AAP)
WANJINA...the tin foil hat brigade only want to see 'spacemen',
in everything...but come on, these are simply, Mighty, Big, Hairy,
White Freckled Skinned, Red Heads...The Tribe of BENJAMIN...
also, Female Wanjina are very rare, as BENJAMIN nearly became
extinct. Sex crazed, immorally, cruelly, unhealthily so, the rest of
The Tribes of Israel banned intermarriage with them, but so that
they didn't die out (God keeping His Promise), they took women
not of Israel, as wives.



Judges - Chapter 21

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jdg&c=21&t=KJV#14
And they said 559 , [There must be] an inheritance 3425 for them that be escaped 6413 of Benjamin 1144, that a tribe 7626 be not destroyed 4229 out of Israel 3478.


Howbeit we may 3201 not give 5414 them wives 802 of our daughters 1323: for the children 1121 of Israel 3478 have sworn 7650 , saying 559 , Cursed 779 [be] he that giveth 5414 a wife 802 to Benjamin 1144.


Then they said 559 , Behold, [there is] a feast 2282 of the LORD 3068 in Shiloh 7887 yearly 3117 3117 [in a place] which [is] on the north side 6828 of Bethel 1008, on the east side 4217 8121 of the highway 4546 that goeth up 5927 from Bethel 1008 to Shechem 7927, and on the south 5045 of Lebonah 3829.


Therefore they commanded 6680 the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144, saying 559 , Go 3212 and lie in wait 693 in the vineyards 3754;

And see 7200 , and, behold, if the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887 come out 3318 to dance 2342 in dances 4246, then come ye out 3318 of the vineyards 3754, and catch 2414 you every man 376 his wife 802 of the daughters 1323 of Shiloh 7887, and go 1980 to the land 776 of Benjamin 1144.

And it shall be, when their fathers 1 or their brethren 251 come 935 unto us to complain 7378 , that we will say 559 unto them, Be favourable 2603 unto them for our sakes: because we reserved 3947 not to each man 376 his wife 802 in the war 4421: for ye did not give 5414 unto them at this time 6256, [that] ye should be guilty 816 .


And the children 1121 of Benjamin 1144 did so 6213 , and took 5375 [them] wives 802, according to their number 4557, of them that danced 2342 , whom they caught 1497 : and they went 3212 and returned 7725 unto their inheritance 5159, and repaired 1129 the cities 5892, and dwelt 3427 in them.


And the children 1121 of Israel 3478 departed 1980 thence at that time 6256, every man 376 to his tribe 7626 and to his family 4940, and they went out 3318 from thence every man 376 to his inheritance 5159.


In those days 3117 [there was] no king 4428 in Israel 3478: every man 376 did 6213 [that which was] right 3477 in his own eyes 5869.

_____________________________________________________
Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin, Wanjina, Benjamin...

...can't you hear the same name, travel over many ages, and tongues,
and still belong to the same type of people described...


Aboriginal people believe

we have been here "forever".

According to current scientific
theories,
it is thought that Aborigines have
occupied Australia
for over 60,000 years -
and possibly
more than 100,000 years.
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:29 am

Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia....Wow! (Main Forum)


by AnnieJ , Friday, October 07, 2011, 21:54 (5 days ago) @ Bill Dowsley

What you've said is so true, Bill.

[color:c582=#36f]... whatever the age, could we Euro-centrics realise humankind owes so much to ancient peoples in other continents.

This website has more details about aboriginal astronomy:

http://www.atnf.csiro.au/research/AboriginalAstronomy/examples.htm

[color:c582=#3c0]Across Australia
are many different rich and vibrant Aboriginal cultures, each with its
own astronomy. But there are common threads. Many have stories of a
female Sun who warmed the land, and a male Moon who was once a young
slim man (the waxing crescent Moon), but grew fat and lazy (the full
Moon). But then he broke the law, and was attacked by his people,
resulting in his death (the new Moon). After remaining dead for 3 days,
he rose again to repeat the cycle, and continues doing so till this day.
The Kuwema people in the Northern Territory say that he grows fat at
each full moon by devouring the spirits of those who disobey the tribal
laws.


Lots of parallels to other tribal mythologies.

The whole site is worth exploring.

Annie




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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:35 am


TalkToYoUniverse

Where I talk to you about linguistics and
anthropology, science fiction and fantasy, point of view, grammar
geekiness, and all of the fascinating permutations thereof...


Thursday, October 6, 2011

Link: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

I came across this wonderful article
this morning and knew I had to pass it on to you guys. It's about a
formation of standing stones (boulders) in Australia - likely older than
Stonehenge - showing that the ancient Aboriginal peoples were
stargazers and understood the movements of the celestial bodies.
Furthermore, it discusses other evidence of scientific knowledge in the
form of storytelling.


The way that so much of these people's knowledge and culture was lost
or obliterated during European settlement is horrible and a tragedy.
I'm pleased that we can at least make progress in understanding things
like these stones in order to recapture some of that, and realize that
these people have always been worthy of respect.
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:24 am

Lake Ellsworth:
Scientists to search for new life

October 13, 2011
By Bernd


Antarctica (global-adventures.us):
Lake Ellsworth, a subglacial lake located in West Antarctica under
approximately 2.1 miles (3.4 kilometers) of ice, is the target of a new
expedition led by the British Antarctic Survey (BAS). Researchers hope
that the project will yield new knowledge about the evolution of life on
Earth and other planets, and will provide vital clues about the Earth’s
past climate.


Transporting nearly 70 tones of equipment, an ‘advance party’ of four
engineers from BAS will make the 9,942 miles (16,000km) journey from
their UK home-base to Lake Ellsworth - one of the most remote and
hostile environments on Earth.


“Our task is to prepare the way for the ‘deep-field’ research mission
that will take place next year,” says program manager Chris Hill.

“In October 2012 we will return to the site with a team of 10 scientists and
engineers to make a
[1.86mile] three kilometer bore hole through the ice
using state-of-the-art hot water drilling technology.



We will then lower a titanium probe to measure and sample the water
followed by a corer to extract sediment from the lake.”


Lake Ellsworth is likely to be the first of Antarctica’s 387 known
subglacial lakes to be measured and sampled directly through the design
and manufacture of space-industry standard ‘clean technology’. For years
scientists have speculated that new and unique forms of microbial life
could have evolved in this cold, pitch black and isolated environment.
Sediments on the lake bed are likely to reveal vital clues about the
history of life in the lake and the ancient history of the West
Antarctic Ice Sheet (WAIS), including past collapse.


“Finding life in a lake that could have been isolated from the rest
of the biosphere for up to half a million years will tell us so much
about the potential origin of and constraints for life on Earth, and may
provide clues to the evolution of life on other extraterrestrial
environments,” said Dr. David Pearce, Science Coordinator at BAS. “If we
find nothing this will be even more significant because it will define
limits at which life can no longer exist on the planet.”


“The exploration of subglacial Lake Ellsworth is a frontier science
project with engineering and technology at the forefront,” says
Professor Nicholas Owens, BAS Director. Scientists at British Antarctic
Survey and Durham University, working in partnership with Austrian
business UWITEC, have designed and built a sediment corer, which can
extract a core up to 9.84 feet (three meters) long. The unique
percussion-driven piston corer is strong enough to penetrate even the
most compacted glacial sediments to extract a core sample.


The unique 16.4 feet (five meter) long water sampling probe was
designed and built by engineers at the National Oceanography Centre in
Southampton. Made of titanium to ensure maximum strength, it will
collect 24 water samples at different lake depths. It will also capture
the top layer of sediments at the lake-floor / water interface.


“For almost 15 years we’ve been planning to explore this hidden
world,” says Lake Ellsworth Program Principal Investigator, Professor
Martin Siegert from the University of Edinburgh. “It’s only now that we
have the expertise and technology to drill through Antarctica’s thickest
ice and collect samples without contaminating this untouched and
pristine environment.”


Next year the team of scientists and engineers will live in tents,
spending around three months working at one of the coldest and windiest
places on Earth.


The picture shows the camp deep field at Lake Ellsworth.
Photo: Neil Ross, University of Edinburgh
__________________________________________________________

The Exploration of Subglacial Lake Ellsworth in West Antarctica
23 Jan, 2008 09:43 am

Ever since the discovery, ten years ago, of Lake Vostok as a large deep
freshwater body beneath the Antarctic ice sheet,
scientists have been fascinated by the potential of subglacial lakes as
habitats for unusual microbial life and recorders of unique climate
records. While several plans exist to penetrate into and explore these
environments, none are more advanced that a UK-led project to
investigate Lake Ellsworth in West Antarctica.


The notion of substantial volumes of liquid water in Antarctica seems incongruous when one considers that the coldest temperature on Earth, -89°C, was recorded on 21st July 1983 at Vostok Station in central East Antarctica, and that temperatures here are regularly around -60°C.
However, geothermal heating from the Earth’s interior, at a normal level, is sufficient
to keep the base of the 3.7 km thick ice sheet at Vostok Station warm, and
permit the existence of Lake Vostok; a body of water, the size of Lake Ontario[1]. In
fact, the Antarctic ice-sheet base is warm in many places. Where subglacial
water forms, it flows under gravity and pressure of ice into topographic hollows,
where it ponds to form lakes of various sizes. While Lake Vostok is the best
known and largest lake in Antarctica, glaciologists have discovered over 150 of
them scattered widely across the continent[2] (Figure 1).

Subglacial lakes can be identified using ice-penetrating radar. VHF radio-waves propagate well in cold ice and reflect of boundaries where there is a change in electrical properties. While the most significant boundary occurs at the ice-sheet base, the nature of a radar
reflection from a subglacial lake (e.g. a flat, bright echo of constant
strength due to the uniform reflections off a mirror-like interface) is
distinct from an ice-rock contact (e.g. an undulating, weak echo of variable
strength due to scattering at a rough interface; Figure 2).

Deep-water subglacial lakes have inspired biologists to plan their exploration, as unique extreme environments in which unusual micro-organisms might adapt and survive.
While this aspect of subglacial lakes research has been given considerable scientific and media attention, we should not underestimate the importance of the two-fold geoscientific rationale behind the future exploration of subglacial lakes.

First, subglacial lakes are highly likely to contain sediments across their floors, which will have accumulated for as long as the lakes have been in existence. For deep-water lakes, this could be as old as the present-day ice sheet, which is of unknown age. In fact the
glacial history of the Antarctic ice sheet throughout the Cenozoic is not known
well. Sediment records from the floors of subglacial lakes may be able to
provide important information concerning past ice sheet changes.

Second, subglacial lakes are evidence of widespread water beneath the ice sheet, which is likely to have an important, albeit poorly known, influence on ice sheet flow dynamics. Recent satellite remote sensing investigations have revealed that subglacial lakes can
periodically discharge large volumes of water across several hundred kilometres
(Figure 3). In one case, a flux of water of the order of the flow of the River Thames in London was calculated between lakes in central East Antarctica separated by 300 km[4].
The discharge was of the order of 1.8 km3 and lasted for 16 months during
1996-7. As several subglacial lakes are known to exist at the heads of ice
streams[2](the fast flowing rivers of ice that drain the bulk of the ice sheet), changes
to the basal conditions of these systems caused by subglacial lake drainage
could have serious implications for ice sheet stability and, possibly, global sea-level
change. Evidence certainly exists in the morphological record of the ice sheet
margin for huge outburst events that left water channels cut >100 m deep
into hard rock.

It is therefore likely that substantial volumes of subglacial lake water have
previously reached the ocean, and could do so again under the glacial processes
identified in East Antarctica.

While there are clearly good and exiting reasons to explore subglacial lakes, to do so is challenging from technical, logistical and environmental points of view. As subglacial lakes are pristine environments, and as the levels of life and nutrients are likely to be low,
direct examination of these systems must be undertaken in ultra-clean
conditions. In other words, contamination of the lake by the access technique
must be avoided, and equipment used to measure the lake must be sterile. Hot
water drilling offers the best opportunity for efficient clean lake access, as
opposed to ice coring that uses an antifreeze drilling fluid or thermo-probing
which is notoriously unreliable over even short (<100 m) vertical distances.
Once lake access is achieved, instruments can be lowered down the borehole and
into the water column (Figure 4), to measure the broad physical, chemical and biological properties of the lake water and sediments.

A UK-led team, involving over 30 scientists from 15 universities and
research institutes, and indeed scientists from four other nations, have identified
Lake Ellsworth as a prime candidate for exploration[5].

Subglacial lakes research is in its infancy. While plans to explore Lake Ellsworth are being developed (see www.geos.ed.ac.uk/ellsworth), the earliest lake access might take place is
in 2012/13 – 100 years since the ‘golden age’ of Antarctic exploration and, of course, the centenary of the Scott expedition to South Pole!

References
[1] Kapitsa, A., Ridley, J.K., Robin, G. de
Q., Siegert, M.J. & Zotikov, I. Large deep freshwater lake beneath the ice
of central East Antarctica. Nature, 381, 684-686. (1996).

[2] Siegert, M.J., Carter, S., Tabacco, I.,
Popov, S. and Blankenship, D. A revised inventory of Antarctic subglacial
lakes. Antarctic Science, 17 (3), 453-460. (2005).

[3] Siegert M.J., Hindmarsh, R., Corr H.,
Smith, A., Woodward, J., King, E., Payne, A.J., Joughin, I. Subglacial Lake
Ellsworth: a candidate for in situ exploration in West Antarctica. Geophysical
Research Letters, 31 (23), L23403, 10.1029/2004GL021477. (2004).

[4] Wingham, D.J., Siegert, M.J., Shepherd, A.P. and Muir, A.S. Rapid discharge connects Antarctic subglacial lakes. Nature, 440, 1033-1036 (2006).

[5] Siegert, M.J. and the Lake Ellsworth Consortium. The exploration of Ellsworth Subglacial Lake: a concept paper on the development, organisation and execution of an experiment to explore, measure and sample the environment of a West Antarctic subglacial lake. Reviews
in Environmental Science and Bio/Technology. doi: 10.1007/s11157-006-9109-9
(2006).

Figures and Captions


Figure 1. The locations of Antarctic subglacial lakes. Different colours refer to the nation whose geophysical survey was responsible for lake identification. Lake Ellsworth is circled in
red.


Figure 2. Radio-echo sounding transect across the foothills of the Ellsworth Mountains in West Antarctica, revealing the surface of Lake Ellsworth within a 1-2 km deep trough (probably a former fjord). Note the smooth bright return from the ice water interface as opposed to the undulating signal from the surrounding bedrock. Note also the sloping
lake surface, which is a recognised characteristic of a subglacial lake in hydrostatic equilibrium with the overlying ice.


Figure 3. Sudden flow of subglacial lake water beneath the central East Antarctic ice sheet. Satellite altimetry detects (1) ice-sheet surface elevation lowering of around 3 m, signalling the loss of water from a lake 3.5 km beneath and (2) surface uplift of 1-2 m some 250 km
away caused by a rapid influx of water. The lakes are located within the a distinct subglacial trench in which, calculations reveal, the flow of water would from one lake to another.
The lowering and uplift occur at roughly the same time (within 35 days, which is the repeat cycle of the satellite), which means the flow of water would be of the order of 50 m3 s-1 – similar to the flow of the River Thames in London. Subsequent to uplift, satellite show lowering due to further loss of water downstream (3).


Figure 4. The exploration of subglacial lake Ellsworth. Hot-water drilling is used to access the lake. The hole is likely to be kept open for 24-36 hours, during which time a sterile probe will be released into the lake. The probe will measure the lake’s chemistry and
biology, as well as physical parameters such as temperature, density and
conductivity. Once the probe has been retracted, a gravity core will be
deployed to extract a sample of sediment from the lake floor.
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:32 am


''The fresh terrases, lawns and grottos
with distinct plantations of the tallest
and most stately trees I ever saw in any
nobleman's grounds in England,
cannot excel in beauty those whose
nature now presented to our view,''

...so how did "they" then make the world
'believe', the "unlivable
desert" lie?
And WHY?


I just watched this on ABC24,
the link to the video of the programme is below,
and it shows much more than the news report.


The Biggest Estate (on Earth)
Published:Friday, October 14, 2011 7:30 AEDT
Expires:Thursday, January 12, 2012
7:30 AEDT

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2011/10/14/3340516.htm?site=canberra§ion=news

Local author and historian Bill Gammage has a new book - with a
revolutionary perspective on the land management techniques of
Aborigines.

Tags:
nonfiction-books, history, indigenous-culture, aboriginal, australia, canberra-2600

Burning questions
Adrian Hyland
October 15, 2011

Landscapes by artists such as John Glover
depict the ''park-like'' Australia described by early settlers.

WHEN Charles Darwin visited our shores, his impressions
of the indigenous inhabitants were far from complimentary: ''Harmless
savages wandering about without knowing where they shall sleep at night
and gaining their livelihood by hunting in the woods.''

If the most innovative thinker of the 19th century could
be so blinkered by his own preconceptions, so absurdly wrong, what hope
was there for his compatriots? Aboriginal Australians were regarded as
rootless, drifting, blown about by the wind and the weather, dependent
on the vagaries of a brutal climate to scratch out a precarious
existence in the harshest of environments.

Such perceptions were informed by 19th-century theories
of racial superiority, insinuated their way into the
''smooth-the-dying-pillow'' approach that characterised much of the
20th century and have echoes in the welfare dependence that racks
Aboriginal communities today.

The Biggest Estate on Earth
by Bill Gammage.

In The Biggest Estate on Earth, ANU historian Bill Gammage
demolishes this view, demonstrating that Aboriginal people
not only brilliantly adapted to this environment - they created it.

Our vision of what pre-European Australia was like tends
to come from stretches of ''wilderness'', from scrub-covered ranges and
tangled gullies. But such does not seem to have been the experience of
the first Europeans.

''The fresh terrases, lawns and grottos with distinct plantations
of the tallest and most stately trees I ever saw in any
nobleman's grounds in England, cannot excel in beauty those whose nature
now presented to our view,''
commented First Fleeter Arthur Bowes
Smyth on the landscape around Sydney. Similar things were said of
Melbourne, where John Batman was enraptured: ''The most beautiful sheep
pasturage I ever saw in my life.''

Such comments ring out from the pioneers Gammage quotes
and the image is reinforced by the work of the colonial artists.


The trees were scattered, the scrub was thin. The soil
was so soft and dark you could sink a hand into it with ease. The rivers
were crystal clear. The plains were rich with game, the skies dark
with birds, the seas black with fish.

The picture Gammage paints is reminiscent of an armillary sphere:
an astonishing framework of interwoven circles and rings.

The life cycles of the flora and fauna - kangaroos and
koalas, grasses and yams and spear trees - were intimately connected,
perfectly balanced. What doesn't seem to have occurred to the settlers
was that, like the sphere, this intricate world was crafted by the
hand of man.

His thesis revolves around several environmental dilemmas:
how was it that plant species with diverse ecological
imperatives were living in such close proximity? Why was there grass
growing on the best soil in the valleys and scattered trees with little
undergrowth on the heights? How could species with such different fire
requirements be growing near each other?

He examines the works of the pioneer painters and
observes ribbon gum, blackwood and native cherry growing side by side.
Some trees need fire every five years, others every 10 years, others
not for centuries. In a landscape by John Glover, he uncovers evidence
of three distinct fire regimes: he finds wallaby traps and sanctuaries,
scattered trees that were useful for spears or medicine.

How could all this complexity have come about?

The logical answer, he concludes, was that it was
deliberately crafted by the first Australians.
And their main technique of control was fire.

The fire-stick was the most important implement in the
Aboriginal tool kit. They burned constantly: anthropologist Rhys Jones
estimates that a single family group would have lit about 5000 fires a
year. They burned to clear tracks, control insects, produce the ''green
pick'' that attracted game.

It was all done with greater skill and knowledge t
han white Australia could begin to imagine.

In Gammage's words, ''what the ecosystem needed, it got''.

Carefully crafted fire is the key to the incredible
complexity of the world he describes: it can trigger species to
regenerate (yam daisy) or sprout (banksia, waratah), to flower
(Christmas Bell) or germinate (hakea, heath), to die but set seed
(mountain ash). Fire provides essential nutrients, it activates soil
bacteria.

Aboriginal people viewed fire as a critical element of
the natural world, their burning based upon knowledge refined over tens
of thousands of years. Their fires were locally based, firmly
controlled, carefully crafted towards the needs of the landscape.

Inevitably, fire entered the Dreaming; walk into any
Aboriginal art gallery in the country and you are likely to come across a
painting whose motif is fire. Gammage quotes an elder from Arnhem
Land: ''You sing the country before you burn it - in your mind you see
the fire, you know where it is going, you know where it will stop.''

Then, in 1788, a new coloniser arrived, one more
interested in profit than knowledge. The carefully prepared landscape,
with its valleys and plains of waving grass, was an irresistible
temptation. Those areas most critical to maintaining the indigenous
ecology - the ''templates'', as Gammage describes them, where an
abundance of water, flora and fauna intersected - took on another value:
as pasture for sheep and cattle, as sources of profit.

But the settlers' understanding of the bush and its fire
regime was minimal. In some cases, they burnt to clear the land; their
burning was wild and indiscriminate. But then, as settlement became more
developed, as they acquired houses and towns, they attempted to
eradicate fire, just as they had eradicated the original inhabitants.

The results were disastrous.

Within a few years, with the destruction of Aboriginal
society and the disappearance of its fire regimes, much of the land the
explorers described as ''park-like'' was covered in thick scrub. Within
16 years, Victoria was ravaged by the inferno of Black Thursday. Ever
since, these monstrous conflagrations have roared out of the bush like
the vengeful ghosts of a vanquished world.

The Biggest Estate on Earth
is history of the most readable kind:
a fascinating amalgam of scientific enigma, bush lore and anecdote.


Gammage has an almost Borgesian instinct for capturing
complexity in a single sentence: after discussing the interweaving
trade routes that criss-cross the continent and along which objects
from seeds to shells could be transferred, he blithely comments:
''Anything could go anywhere.''

This is a beautiful and profound piece of writing, one
that has importance for us all. We live in the most fire-prone
environment on Earth. It was built to burn. Aboriginal people thrived
in this environment for thousands of years, their chief defences being
mobility, continual burning and an intricate understanding of the bush.

In Australia today, when we have lost that mobility and
when we burn in only the most haphazard manner, it is more important
than ever we understand our environment.
The Biggest Estate on Earth
makes a significant contribution
to that understanding.

■Adrian Hyland
is the author of Kinglake-350.

Bill Gammage discusses
The Biggest Estate on Earth

at noon on October 27
at the Wheeler Centre,
176 Little Lonsdale Street, city.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/books/burning-questions-20111014-1lote.html#ixzz1axLa71ZV

''The fresh terrases, lawns and grottos
with distinct plantations of the tallest
and most stately trees I ever saw in any
nobleman's grounds in England,
cannot excel in beauty those whose
nature now presented to our view,''

...so how did "they" then make the world
'believe', the "unlivable
desert" lie,
for over 400 years?
And WHY?

ISAIAH 41

Keep silence 2790 before me,
O islands 339; and let the people 3816
renew 2498 [their] strength 3581:
let them come near 5066 ;
then let them speak 1696 :
let us come near 7126 together 3162
to judgment 4941.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=41&v=1&t=KJV#1
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:37 pm


27 books in the second part of Bible
(New Testament).

27: The total number of letters
in the Hebrew alphabet
(22 regular letters and 5 final consonants)


In the Kabbalah there are 27 letters,
corresponding to
27 channels of communication with God
and 27 combinations of the names of God and -
13
overt
and 14 covert.

AUSTRALIAN CASEY STONER'S number 27,


A flag bearing the number of new
MotoGp World Champion Casey Stoner

is displayed during warm-ups for the
2007 Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix
held at Phillip Island Circuit on October 14, 2007
Phillip Island, Australia.

(October 13, 2007 -
Photo by Robert Cianflone/Getty Images Sport)


27 books in the second part of Bible
(New Testament).


17-10-2011
27 11 00 11
27 AGAIN
0h 0h
11 AGAIN and 11 AGAIN
and 'tintin's' 17 Anti-Christ Prince
IS LIMITED
...

0h, I could go on and on, showing how
tintin/cori, shuffle around the facts in
Today's News to sell 'their' the old lies,
make and target new threats, desperate
yet too cowardly to debate face to face,
what 'they' troll from others, to twist to
'their' DOOMED purpose, e.g.

2011 Honda Casey Stoner Repsol Fireblade
words - Feann Torr

Honda has unveiled a special edition
CBR1000RR Fireblade

to celebrate Casey Stoner's
return to the Honda fold,
limited to just 170 units.


...but this is the best 'they' can do:

http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=11956&page=3162
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=11956&page=3161
http://forum.davidicke.com/showthread.php?t=11956&page=3160

Surely 'they' don't think, or surely 'they' couldn't believe,
that over 6 years, of tens of millions of readers, have all
forgotten, that I at least, made a point of showing that,
the word and number twisting game tintin/cori play, is a
KEY part of HOW the infamous 'They' KEEP THE WORLD'S
BLINDING HOODWINK ON, while plotting (not so secretly)
amongst 'themselves', in public.

And surely some who do think, have seen for themselves
that the Main Stream Media is also where, those with eyes
that see, and ears that hear, can receive The Good News of
ALL GOD'S PROMISES, BEING KEPT, and things long hidden
BEING REVEALED. Surely, because God Promised: that ALL
The World would have HIS WORD Proclaimed, before AGAIN,
HE CONQUERS The World's Evil:


Deu 33:2
And he said 559,
The LORD 3068 came 935 from Sinai 5514,
and rose up 2224 from Seir 8165 unto them;
he shined forth 3313 from mount 2022 Paran 6290,
and he came 857 with ten thousands 7233
of saints 6944: from his right hand 3225
[went] a fiery 799 784 law 1881 for them.


<< Revelation 1:16>>
http://bible.cc/revelation/1-16.htm

Mar 13:10
And 2532 the gospel 2098 must 1163 first 4412
be published 2784 among 1519 all 3956 nations 1484.


Mat 24:14
And 2532 this 5124 gospel 2098 of the kingdom 932
shall be preached 2784 in 1722 all 3650 the world 3625
for 1519 a witness 3142 unto all 3956 nations 1484;
and 2532 then 5119 shall the end 5056 come 2240 .


Now DO click on those numbers and see the full,
descriptive meanings, of GOD'S WORD, and see,
how different it is, from 'the out of Egypt' 'bible'
stories, that kept things hidden, until The TIME
GOD CHOSE for them to be REVEALED to ALL,
tangled in the World Wide Web of deception.

true lilly wrote:...only a tiny sample
of the countless examples of why the wise,
keep, The First Commandment, First and Last.
true lilly wrote:That's
The First Commandment of The Creator God,
Who told us, From The Beginning,
about All This Real World He Really Created,
and THE AGE of LIFE, HERE In This Real World,
BEFORE
OXYGEN=the prince of the air=DEATH...


Scientists claim bacteria fossils discovered
in Port Hedland
are more than 3.4 billion years old

August 22, 2011 9:00AM

A 3D image of the 3.4 billion-year-old microfossil found in Western Australia. Picture: AFP / David Wacey and Derek Gertsmann.



Strelley Pool in Pilbara region of Western Australia
where the fossils were found. Picture: AFP / David Wacey


SCIENTISTS in Western Australia have uncovered fossils
which they say are the oldest evidence of life on earth.

A team of researchers from the University of WA and Britain's
Oxford University say they have proof that the microscopic fossils,
found at Strelley Pool near Port Hedland, are more than 3.4 billion
years old.


The sulphur-based bacteria was found well preserved between quartz sand
grains in prehistoric sedimentary rocks, Oxford University's Professor
Martin Brasier said.


"We can be very sure about the age (of the fossils) as the rocks were formed
between two volcanic successions that narrow the possible age down to a few
tens of millions of years," he said in a statement.


The fossils are very clearly preserved, showing precise cell-like structures
all of a similar size, the research team said.


"At last we have good solid evidence for life over 3.4 billion years ago.
It confirms there were bacteria at this time,
living without oxygen,"
Prof Brasier said.

"Such bacteria are still common today.
Sulphur bacteria are found in smelly ditches,
soil, hot springs, hydrothermal vents —
anywhere where there's little free oxygen
and they can live off organic matter."


In recent years new scientific benchmarks have been introduced
that must be satisfied by researchers before claims can be made
about the age of fossils.


The West Australian fossils pass crucial tests including that the forms
seen in the rocks are biological and have not occurred through some
mineralisation process, Prof Brasier said.


"We're now making detailed comparisons with all other early microfossils,
and we're very optimistic for future finds," he said.


"The work also has implications for looking for life on other planets,
giving an indication of what evidence for such life might look like."

...and MAN LIVED,
and DEATH had NO power over the living,
before...

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=3&v=1&t=KJV#1
PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR and
SPIRIT WHO NOW WORKS IN SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE
"
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
in which you once walked according to the course of this world,
according to the PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR,
the SPIRIT WHO NOW WORKS IN THE SONS OF DISOBEDIENCE
"
(Ephesians 2:1-2)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eph&c=2&v=1t=KJV#1

ABADDON, ANGEL OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT and APOLLYON
"And they had as king over them the ANGEL OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT,
whose name in Hebrew is ABADDON
(Greek: Ἀβαδδών, Strong's Concordance #G3, meaning destoying angel), but in Greek he has the name APOLLYON (Greek: Απολλύων, Strong's Concordance #G623, meaning destroyer)." (Revelation 9:11, NKJV throughout)


MURDERER, LIAR and FATHER OF LIES
"You are of your father the devil,
and the desires of your father you want to do.
He was a MURDERER from the beginning,
and does not stand in the truth,
because there is no truth in him.
When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own
resources, for he is a LIAR and THE FATHER OF IT.

" (John 8:44)


God 430 hath said 559
, Ye shall not eat 398 of it,
neither shall ye touch 5060 it, lest 6435 ye die 4191 .

And the serpent 5175 said 559 unto the woman 802,
Ye shall not surely 4191 die 4191 :

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=3&v=1&t=KJV#1

It's all there, evident in what is real, in this real world
and in God's Holy Scripture, the answers to disprove every
'contradiction', we've been taught to believe, 'disproves'
the truth of God's Living Word.

One only needs to seek and ask, and keep seeking and asking.


So best prepare your spirit, to accept God's Spirit,
when He removes the law of oxygenation/death,
to be able to keep living during God's '1000' yr.
healing period, before He puts death away, FOREVER.
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  mugglez on Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:16 pm

Yahshua's Kabbalah

http://rabdavis.org/yahshuas%20%20kabbalah.htm

Mark 9: 1 “Yes!” he went on, “I tell you that there are some people standing here who will not experience death until they see the Kingdom Of G-d come in a powerful way!” 2 Six days later, Yahshua took Kefa, Ya‘akov and Yochanan and led them up a high mountain privately. As they watched, he began to change form, 3 and his clothes became dazzlingly white, whiter than anyone in the world could possibly bleach them. 4 Then they saw Eliyahu and Moshe speaking with Yahshua. 5 Kefa said to Yahshua, “It’s good that we’re here, Rabbi! Let’s put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moshe and one for Eliyahu.” 6 (He didn’t know what to say, they were so frightened.) 7 Then a cloud enveloped them; and a voice came out of the cloud, “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!” 8 Suddenly, when they looked around, they no longer saw anyone with them except Yahshua. (Jewish NT)



Those of you who are attending kabbalah class know that Jewish Mysticism, which is known today as Kabbalah is the private instruction of a rabbi to his Talmidim as opposed to Mishnah, which denoted a rabbis' public ministry that his Talmidim were to pass on.



In the foregoing passage, we have the culmination of the Kabbalah of Yahshua and he warns His disciples not to reveal the vision of the Transfiguration until after He is resurrected.



Sha'ul also wrote of Kabbalah when he spoke of the transmigration of his soul in 2 Cor. 12:2-4.



Kabbalah also informs of a technique allowing one to enter into "Paradise," the eternal Garden of Eden adjacent to the Chariot-Throne that is fraught with danger.



In general Kabbalah is about our cleaving to G-d and approaching His Throne. Elijah, Ezekiel, Yahshua and Sha'ul all seem to have been familiar with kabbalistic techniques.

In the reading of the Transfiguration (Matthew 16:28-17:13; Mark 9:1-13; Luke 9:27-36) we have a glimpse into Yahshua's kabbalah. We see Yahshua taking three of His Disciples - Peter, James, and John climbing above the villages, up the slopes of Mount Hermon or Mount Lebanon as Josephus called it in his Antiquities to an ancient site of worship.



On mount Hermon Yahshua here followed the example of Moshe who took three of his followers Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu up Mount Sinai where they ate and drank to celebrate the vision of the G-d of Israel on His sapphire throne (Ex. 24:1-11). But unlike what happened on Moshe's mountain, Yahshua's disciples, covered by a cloud of glory, heard a voice say, " This is my son, the beloved, in whom I take pleasure: hear Him (Matthew 9:Cool and when the cloud passed they found Yahshua without Moshe and Elijah (Mark 9:Cool standing alone as G-d's son. "Divine son" was the same designation Yahshua had heard during His immersion with John the Baptist: now his own disciples saw and heard the truth of Yahshua's own vision. We should note that the Transfiguration does not speak in the later exclusive language of the Christian Trinity that makes Yahshua into the only possible son of G-d. Here we perceive that the same spirit that had animated Elijah and Moshe was present in Yahshua and this spirit could make of whomever it wishes sons of G-d.



In the middle of the vision and hearing the divine voice Kefa (Peter) offers to build three huts (Sukkoth) for Yahshua, Moshe and Eliyahu. In Marks' gospel we see this presented as an inept suggestion born out of fear (Mark 9:5-6).



A better translation of verse 6 would be that "For he (Peter) did not know how he should respond, because they were terrified" inferring that Peter's suggestion was an inane remark because of a loss for words.



Frequently, during the formation of the Gospels and their many redactions the significance of Judaic symbolism was forgotten and blame fell on the alleged ignorance of the apostles, rather than the amnesia and ignorance of the Church. In this case the Sukkot Kefa refers to reflect both the great feast that was coming and the realization that great prophets like Moshe, Eliyahu, and Yahshua brought the Spirit of G-d to abide in Israel. Sukkot or booths symbolizes the providence of G-d in His provision for us. Kefa's appreciation of the experience he had witnessed and his desire to build shelters is an indication that he, James and John had indeed joined Yahshua in the vision of the Chariot first reported in the translation of Eliyahu as witnessed by Elisha in, 2 Kings 2:11 and later Ezekiel's Chariot-Throne in his book.



The Mishnah in Chagigah 2:1 teaches that the Chariot called Merkavah in Hebrew should not be introduced to one person alone because the vision of the divine Throne was laden with danger. Some initiates died, some went mad, and still others fell prey to polytheism, by meditating on the Throne imprudently, and it was His genius as a rabbi that Yahshua led his disciples into a vision of the Chariot in a way that mobilized and safely transformed them.



The Transfiguration represents the mature development of Rabbi Yahshua's kabbalah as a man, tempted, in all the ways of humanity, for He was not only able to translate his own vision, but to initiate others into its richness. They now saw Him as a living presence in the pantheon of Israel's patriarchs and prophets around G-d's throne. Their rabbi, favored by the thundering voice of G-d (John 12:28, 29), stood at the vortex of creation's source. Yahshua had given to them and gives to us, no matter the cost in hardships, deprivation and struggles the reward of intimacy with the divine presence.



Yahshua's esoteric teaching as evidenced by the Scriptures had grown in advance of His public teaching, and that is a reversal of the pattern we would expect from the Mishnah and the Talmud. Kabbalah had an early prominent place in His teaching. Through the Transfiguration we see that G-d has exalted His son and this revealing of Yahshua's entrance into the heavenly court forever more became a defining force in our consciousness of G-d in our culture.



The vision on Mount Hermon had shown that Yahshua was G-d's son and this exerted a powerful temptation onto His disciples. They would counsel: Who would deny such a man the power to rule as the King of Israel? Yahshua to was susceptible to the same temptation. Yet, Yahshua who is the faithful son of G-d and being pressed by HaSatan day and night to being disloyal to G-d resisted it, and "The Lord's Prayer" was completed in the dark night of what has become known as the Temptation:



My Father,

Your name will be sanctified, your Kingdom will come: Give me today the bread that is coming, and release me my debts-not bring me to the test!



The disciples as were the people of Israel confused G-d's Kingdom with their own national power, especially as Yahshua initiated then into the variations of His Kabbalah after the vision on Mt. Hermon.



Yahshua had healed the sick, raised the dead, stilled storms, walked on water and ultimately had appeared on Mt. Hermon with Eliyahu and Moshe. Why should He not break the rule of Rome?



His disciples even argued among themselves as to who should be the greatest next to Yahshua in the coming Kingdom on earth. Yahshua had to define His movement for by force they might make Him King.



In the Targum of Zechariah, chapter 14 communicates Yahshua's mission and focus to Him. It provided the formula and ritual program, and the key that would unlock the magic door through which the transformation of the Kingdom of G-d would flow. The Targum predicts that G-d's Kingdom will be manifested over the entire earth when the offerings of Sukkoth are presented both by Israelites and Gentiles at the Temple. It further predicts that these worshippers will prepare and offer their sacrifices themselves, in the Galilean manner without the intervention of middlemen. Significantly, the last words of the book promise that, "there shall never again be a trader in the sanctuary of the Lord of Hosts at that time" (Zachariah 14:21). Yahshua's desire to realize the Targum prophecy brought on the dramatic confrontation that he would shortly provoke in the Temple. Zechariah's vision of the ultimate Sukkoth restored the land to Israel and the Temple to the sacrifice G-d desired, The Romans would be banished, and Zion's gate opened to all who would join with Israel there in worship (Targum Zechariah 14:9). Most Christians do not know that during the millennium there will be a return to animal sacrifice in the Temple. Zechariah 14 vv.16-21, 'And it shall come to pass that everyone that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the king, the Lord of Hosts, and to keep the feast of the tabernacles... Yea every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of Hosts; and all that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein; and in that day shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of Hosts'. And again perhaps the clearest and most detailed references to the same are in the closing chapters of Ezekiel. The seven chapters Ezekiel 40-46 - give us a description of the millennial temple with its dimensions and its practices, including the sacrifices and offerings, which will take place.



All Yahshua's actions were informed by Judaism and the tenets of its faith, and that is lost or even considered anathema to most professed believers, because they have been taught, erroneously, that His advent signaled a new path to redemption, a path that leads to Hellenistic Christianity, and it's opposition to Judaism. Yet, any unbiased, informed believer can realize through Yahshua's kabbalah and His mission that He was not only our paschal lamb to provide reconciliation unto HaShem, but he was also to usher in the Future Kingdom of G-d, established within the framework and parameters of a Messianic Judaism that upholds the practice of Torah. And not through another religion that has lost its Jewish roots, namely Christianity.

Amein


wave wacky boobies
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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  mugglez on Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:18 pm

Kabbalah simply means "to receive", but many generally think of Kabbalah as a form of religion, or as Eastern mysticism. Having a basic understanding of Kabbalah can be quite helpful if you come up against ideas of those who use Kabbalah to shape their ideas about spirituality.



Kabbalah is not a single system where all involved utilize the same basic principles, those who promote Kabbalist ideologies can be extremely duplicitous and deceptive. So hence some of the caution against studying Kabbalah. On the other hand, those who insist all Kabbalah is bad are generally ignorant and/or threatened by something they have little or no knowledge of. Anyone who communicates anything "spiritual" or who believes they have "received" insight from "the Spirit" are essentially teaching their own form of "Kabbalah".



There are mainstream ideas within "Kabbalah" that everyone should know about and be able to discuss, whether they agree or disagree with its interpretations. For example, take a brief survey of the list of words below, how do you define them? Where did you learn about their definitions?



Abba Adam Kadmon Akedah Anthropomorphism Antinomianism Apocalyptic Atonement

Ba'al Circumcision Da'at End of Days Exorcism Gehinnom Gematria Gevurah

Grace after meals Halacha Hod Holy Spirit Kedushah Kavod Messiah Metatron

Nefesh Olam haba Pardes Passover Prayer Prophetic Redemption Remez

Resurrection Sabbath Sacrifice Sefirot Sexuality Sinai Temple

Throne Tiferet Toledot Adam Torah Tikkun Olam

Tree of Knowledge Tree of Life Trinity

Virgin Mary World Zodiac




Each of the above words represents a meaning that each of us has a "relationship" with. There are infinite "connections" within these words, each one has many levels of meaning and understanding. Let's look at a set of names in Torah called the Toledot Adam (the line, or genealogy of Adam). The "given" names of Adams descendants to Noah are straightforward, these are "normal" Biblical names until we look a bit deeper. What is going on? Can you see a hidden meaning beneath these common individual names? You decide. In my mind what the meaning derived from the sequential meaning is no coincidence. There is universe of thought underlying these names, a hidden code to be "received". It speaks of Mashiyach.



Toledot Adam Bereshit 5

(Geneology of Adam from Genesis 5)

HEBREW NAME ENGLISH DEFINITION
ADAM MAN
SETH APPOINTED
ENOSH MORTAL
CAINAN SORROW
MAHALEEL BLESSED ELOHIM
YARED SHALL COME DOWN
ENOCH TEACHING
METHUSELAH HIS DEATH SHALL BRING
LAMECH DESPAIRING
NOACH COMFORT



MAN [is] APPOINTED MORTAL SORROW,

[but a] BLESSED ELOHIM SHALL COME DOWN

TEACHING [that] HIS DEATH SHALL BRING

[the] DESPAIRING COMFORT



MAGNIFICENT! YHWH ordained the Hebrew Names in the Toledot Adam to tell the story of Yeshua coming to earth to bring Comfort! Even SALVATION to His people! However, trying to understand Kabbalah or trying to connect with YHWH and His Mashiyach without Torah is to venture off into darkness and eventually the soul will be tormented.



True kabbalah is meant to establish the Word of YHWH in our neshama (spirit),

and to strengthen and confirm our relationship with Master YHWH.



There are many levels to receiving YHWH's wisdom, knowledge and understanding. The Adversary (HaSatan) twists that which is good and distorts it for evil purposes. However, if we focus on the Kabbalah that is revealed inside of Tanakh and the Ketuvim Netzarim, we discover magnificent revelation about YHWH, His Mashiyach, and the Life He has given each of us.



Within the Mishkan (Tabernacle), we also discover the image of Mashiyach revealed. Consider the Ark of the Covenant and the Mercy Seat in the Holy of Holies as the Head, and the Holy Place as the chest. In your mind stand the Mishkan on end with the Holy of Holies at the top. Picture the Table of Shewbread to the right side of the body, the Menorah to the left side, the alter of incense in the center right below the head, and the laver below that, and the alter below that and the door of entrance below that. YHWH revealed Mashiyach according to the how the Mishkan was arranged. As we study Torah and Mashiyach we can look inside our own souls and discover who we are in Him. We receive from the Spirit of YHWH something that is greater than the peshat (simple) sum of the parts. We can see how there can only be One Elohim whose Name is YHWH, Who knows about us and who communicates to us on a wonderful spiritual level. There are many imposter "spirits" which is why were are taught:



"And he that keeps His commandments dwells in Him, and He in him.

And hereby we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit which He has given us.

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of Elohim:

because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 John 3:24-4:1




Here's the acid test. When we "keep His Commandments we "receive" His Spirit. When we don't keep His Commandments then we open our souls up to lying and deceiving spirits, it's just that simple.



In the days of Yeshua, the writings of the prophets of YHWH were known as "The Kabbalah". Today it is common for Christians or "Believers" to talk about "hearing from the The Spirit of YHWH (or the LORD). This is the hope and desire of everyone who puts their trust in Mashiyach. We desire that YHWH would communicate and reveal His will to us, help us conform our lives to Him. We are each unique souls created in the "image of Elohim" and we must have this confidence that we are worshipping YHWH in Spirit and Truth according to His Word. Each of us has received "Kabbalah" in our souls, this is our spiritual experience with YHWH and His Mashiyach. On a very personal and private level Kabbalah is all about intimacy with YHWH and seeking to do His will, but, for some it is about learning how to manipulate spiritual and material worlds to attain wealth or power, which is also known as witchcraft.



Rav Shaul (Apostle Paul) was one of the most vocal "Kabbalistic" Apostles. In Ephesians 6 Paul teaches us to put on the whole armor of Elohim, while juxtaposing the tactics of the Enemy. He applies these "Kabbalistic" elements from Tanakh to help the Body of Mashiyach overcome the whiles of the enemy. Paul draws out deeply embedded elements of Mashiyach (see Spiritual Armor p. 957 AENT 3rd Ed) from Scripture according to things he "received" from the Spirit of YHWH. However, Paul's letters are also the most twisted part of the New Testament, Peter writes, "As also in all his (Paul's) letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to understand, which they that are unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:16 Reason being, our carnal human nature tries to intellectualize the spiritual worlds rather than seeing YHWH's Commandments as "applied Kabbalah", as the work of the Ruach haKodesh writing Torah (part of the image of Elohim) upon our hearts.



Our homes are places of shelter, love, provision etc, we nurture a shalom biyet (house of wholeness) where the Spirit of YHWH is made welcome, and where we establish a gate of righteousness. Scripture tells us that every word from our mouths has natural and spiritual consequences. So imagine if each of us elevated our homes as a holy sanctuary, where no unkind or angry or malicious words felt comfortable. What if we could program the "jurisdiction" of our homes and everything within the borders of our gates according to Mashiyach? This is Torah. Torah is replete with jurisdictional elements of spirituality, but the reason many of us cannot "enter in" is because we follow a religion that interprets Torah according to certain traditions whether they be Jewish or Christian, rather than "receiving" Torah from Mashiyach.



Imagine your home as a sanctuary of peace and harmony. Joy and Peace is the predominate attribute. All anti-Messiah elements like religious discrimination, carnal sensuality, perversion, vain talking, lust, etc are awkward, unwelcome and do not belong.



The dinner table is an alter where we pray, fellowship and eat together with those we love. While we are having dinner together we are reminded of YHWH's goodness throughout the day, His bountiful provisions, having our family, our friends, and many good things He gives us to enjoy each day, all provided to us by His outstretched Hand. We are also reminded of those who don't know our Father and His love and His provisions as we've been blessed. Our thoughts and prayers and plans to help others often come together around the table where we eat together.



The table where we eat is a place of giving thank offerings, peace offerings and praise offerings for what YHWH has done for us in His Mashiyach. We remember the cup of wine and the bread and the words of Mashiyach Y'shua who said... "I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of Elohim shall come." (Luke 22:18) When we do the brachot (blessings) we remember that the King of the Universe reigns over our souls our families, our homes and over the borders of our gates. This is why we sanctify our homes unto YHWH and we separate ourselves to YHWH and protect ourselves and our family from unclean spirits and carnal worldly things.



The marriage bed is holy and set apart unto YHWH. What if all "Believers" were able to"receive" a the Way of maintaining Joy, Peace and Justice in their marriages? What impact would it have if every married couple and every child knew that going home meant they would have a place of safety, respect, honor and be loved and cherished? Much of the unity of the home is derived from the honor of the marriage bed and the love and unity between a husband and wife.



The problem is many Believers don't even think it's possible to "receive" deeper levels of beauty and harmony into their lives and homes. Understanding functional "kabbalah" helps us to "raise the bar", we can open our minds to "holy thoughts" and translate that into holy actions. Clearly evil forces have put fear into people's minds about "kabbalah"... but Mashiyach said...



"The truth will set you free..."



And the spirit of YHWH shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of YHWH; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of YHWH: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Isaiah 11:2-5




HaMashiyach Y'shua demonstrated:



1) Spirit of YHWH

2) Wisdom

3) Understanding

4) Counsel

5) Might

6) Knowledge

7) Fear of YHWH




"And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse,

and a Netzer (Sprout) shall grow out of his roots:"

Isaiah 11:1



Y'shua Mashiyach is the Netzer (Sprout) which grew out of the Root of Ye'shai (Jesse), these Seven Attributes signify the Character and Calling of HaMashiyach. Each of these "attributes" are very unique. These are the "SEVEN Spirits of YHWH" Revelations 5:6. The Scriptures reveal that the FEAR of YHWH is the beginning of WISDOM. This is "kabbalah", it is the Seventh attribute, mentioned many times throughout Scripture. Five times Scripture tells us that the FEAR of YHWH brings Wisdom. In an additional two more verses FEAR and WISDOM are mentioned in the same verse, bringing a total of SEVEN references in Scripture that connects the Fear of YHWH with Wisdom. But false religion for example outright rejects the "FEAR" of YHWH. Religions teach a theology that the FEAR of YHWH is not really FEAR, but REVERENCE, or LOVE, but the word fear is YIRAH, which is "fear". Albeit a very unique and special "fear" that is given expressly unto YHWH, and mentioned 45 times in Scripture.



"And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the YIRAH (fear) of Elohim is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake."

B'resheet/Genesis 20:11



"And Moshe said unto the people, "YAREH (Fear) not: for Elohim is come to prove you, and that His YIRAH (Fear) may be before your faces, that ye sin not."

Shemot/Exodus 20:20



"Who knows the power of thine anger?

even according to thy YIRAH (fear), so is your wrath!"

Psalm 90:11



"Then were the men Gadol Yirah Yareh (exceedingly "fearful" afraid), and said unto him, Why have you done this? For the men knew that he fled from the presence of YHWH, because he had told them."

Jonah 1:10




Notice the last verse Gadol Yirah Yareh. The Fear of YHWH "YIRAH" is linked with "Yareh", which means fear, afraid, terror etc. But what false authority has done, is to use theology to make an image of it's own god, and in fact their "fear" is taught by the theology of men.



"Wherefore Adonai (the Master) said, Forasmuch as this people draw near [me] with their mouth, and with their lips do honor me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their YIRAH (fear) toward me is taught by the precept of men:"

Isaiah 29:13




False theology depicts their gods as being a nice god of love, forgiving all willful and perpetual sins according to a man made image of god. Certainly YHWH *is* love, "Because Elohim is love; and whoever does not love, does not know Elohim." (1 John 4:Cool Those who teach that the Fear of YHWH is not FEAR, but REVERENCE, find their religious roots in Marcion, the guy who coined the words "Old and New Testament". Many Christian Bible theologians, translated the word Hebrew Yareh and Shachah into the word REVERENCE. This is how hirelings and false authorities keep the money rolling into their churches and synagogues, they preach acceptance, relativity and tolerance of sin and evil, rather than intimacy with Father YHWH.



Fear of YHWH is a spiritual connection between us and our Father. When we are in the valley of decision, whether we will sanctify His Name, keep Torah, suffer for Mashiyach's name, lose our jobs, get kicked out of a church or synagogue by standing for truth etc, it's at these times that our "FEAR" of YHWH overrules the fear of man. What false leaders want us to do is fear them, be afraid of being rebuked or chastened or finding ourselves on the bad side of the rabbi, priest or pastor. So what they have done is diminish our responsibility to YHWH and His Mashiyach, but advocating that we NOT Fear YHWH, but rather fear them. This is very obvious when "believers" have difficult decisions to make and rather than seek YHWH they run to a rabbi, pastor or priest for their answer and consolation.



No, again it's how you can "receive" your understanding of FEAR, whether it be taught to you by theology or by "receiving" this within your own spirit according to the Word of YHWH being written upon your heart.



"You shall keep my Sabbaths, and reverence (yareh) my sanctuary: I am YHWH." Shemot/Exodus 19:30



"And all the king's servants, that were in the king's gate, bowed, and (shachah) reverenced Haman: for the king had so commanded concerning him. But Mordecai bowed not, nor did him reverence."

Esther 3:2




"Shachah" is most commonly translated as worship, bow down, make obeisance etc. The false church system has completely and utterly removed the original and true FEAR of YHWH right out of their churches, in so doing they've opened the door to all manner of counterfeit teachings.



The FEAR of YHWH is an extremely important revelation for the Body of Mashiyach. What is the FEAR of YHWH then? YHWH is a SPIRIT, an intimate FEAR of YHWH is something we must receive from YHWH, it is not a theology but a LIVING SPIRIT which YHWH puts in His people to help us from falling into carnal living and sinning against His Word.



The FEAR of YHWH becomes a "spiritual instinct"; a quality of discernment that allows us to see the boundaries YHWH has given us according to His Word. KADOSH (SET-APART) also depicts the boundaries or set-apart Nature of YHWH and all that pertains to Him, including His people. This is something to be "received" of the Ruach HaKodesh. Personal living "KABBALAH" is vital, it has extensive ramifications when it comes to our perception of YHWH and Y'shua. Speaking of RAMifications, let's consider Avraham and Yitzhak.



When Avraham was about to sacrifice his son Yitzhak, YHWH spoke through him,

"Abraham said, My son, Elohim (G-d) will provide himself

a SEH (LAMB) for a burnt offering:"

Genesis 22:8

Five verses later we read,



"And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked,

and behold behind him a 'AYIL (RAM) caught in a thicket by his horns:"

Genesis 22:13.



The SEH (Lamb) YHWH promised to Avraham is Yeshua the Word of YHWH. Avraham "received" this from YHWH. It was Mashiyach who spoke with Avraham, Yitzhak and Ya'akov, the WORD OF YHWH who said He would provide HIMSELF A LAMB. The WORD of YHWH is Pure and Faithful. So mankind tortured and put to death the Perfect Lamb of Elohim, who by His suffering took away our sin and empowers us to live free of sin. Who killed Mashiyach? You and I or was it the Jews or the Romans? Again, religion offers another gospel that takes the responsibility for sin off their flocks and puts it on others.



There is NO other acceptable "sin sacrifice" available today. When we speak of sacrifice we speak of an exchange of our debt of sin for forgiveness. If we can "receive" this truth, then we must realize that when we hurt another person, even unintentionally, we are indebted to make restitution and be restored with them in Mashiyach. The single most important reality in our existence is that we only enjoy so many wonderful things in this LIFE because it has been paid for us.



The majority of people on earth believe in the concept and ideals of Mashiyach. About one in four people on earth believe Yeshua is Mashiyach. That a person would even BELIEVE in something metaphysical or spiritual that they can't physically touch is "kabbalah". Kabbalah is spiritual revelation regardless of whether we believe or not that we are also "spiritual beings". The fact is that we exist, body, soul and SPIRIT, so it's not a matter of whether a person accepts or rejects the idea of kabbalah. It's a matter of which "kabbalah" we will choose and which one chooses us.



If you're reading this paper, it's most likely that you are choosing to learn the kabbalah of YHWH and His Mashiyach Yeshua, not the Kabbalah of man, or some anti-Messiah cult religion. The WAY to learn kabbalah from the Ruach HaKodesh is to keep YHWH's Commandments. Meditate on His Word. Choose to do what YHWH says. Rejoice in our Father YHWH. It is YHWH who gave us Life and Who sustains life.



"Then said his wife unto him, Do you still retain your integrity? curse Elohim, and die.

But he said unto her, you speak as one of the foolish women speaks.

What? shall we QABAL (receive) good at the hand of Elohim,

and shall we not QABAL (receive) evil?

In all this Job did not sin with his lips."

Job 2:9,10



"Hear counsel, and QABAL (receive) instruction,

that you may be wise in your latter end."

Proverbs 19:20



Throughout Y'shua's ministry he opened up our spirits by teaching "Truly I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of Elohim as a little child, he shall not enter therein." Mark 10:15



John taught that "...A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven" John 3:27



Y'shua taught things that were difficult for many to understand and accept, when addressing those who would become eunuchs for the sake of the Kingdom he said "...All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given." Matthew 19:11



"And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees Him not, neither knows him: but you know him; for He dwells with you, and shall be in you." John 14:16-17



Regrettably, many "believers" refuse to receive the "comforter", they have settled for a theology or a religious identity about spirituality rather than choosing to live life as spiritual beings. Many cannot turn from rebellion and lies and gossip against Torah and Mashiyach and YHWH's people because they have not loved the Father according to His Word and Spirit. The Way back (teshuva) to the Father is through repentance and humility and acknowledging our sins and doubts to Him, along with those who are His people. If we judge ourselves by ourselves we are very foolish. The standard we are judge ourselves by is Mashiyach Y'shua himself. Ask YHWH to reveal to us who we are. If someone asks, "who are you?" What would you say? Do you know, or have you simply prepared an answer? I pray that you will receive your answer from YHWH according to His Ruach haKodesh.



"And Y’shua said to them again, “Peace be with you.

As my Father has sent me, I also send you.”

And when he said these things, he breathed on them

and said to them, “Receive the Ruach haKodesh.”

John 20:22


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Re: Aboriginal Stonehenge: Stargazing in ancient Australia

Post  true lilly on Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:20 pm

'You' really do believe everyone is a fool.

Counting backwards, only sends you backwards,
to the dark ages, before the real world revelations,
of the laws of how this real world works.

The laws God described, FROM THE BEGINNING,
BEFORE WE COULD GATHER ENOUGH INFORMATION
about The Whole, Real World, God Created, and,
promised would be revealed in this age of much knowledge,
but REJECTION of WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING.

So again, from the beginning:
WATER COVERED GLOBE.
ONE LAND MASS RISES.
LIFE EXISTS ON IT, WITHOUT OXYGEN.
OXYGEN FORMS, DEATH BEGINS.
HARD WOODY PLANTS APPEAR.
ONE LAND MASS COMPLETELY FLOODED.
AGES AFTER THAT TOTAL FLOODING,
THE ONE LAND MASS STARTS TO DIVIDE.

That is what science has revealed to us, and,
that is what God described of the beginning.

Reject science, and you reject God's Word.

And 'you' do reject God's Word, in order to
"defend" 'the bible' that 'you' keep telling
the world, is "a recent man made myth" that
we should all reject...except for that insanely,
too short, "out of (MAN'S DEATH WORSHIPING)
Egypt" and it's DEATH WORSHIPING RELIGIONS,
bit.


Well, I at least, can see, when the spamming trolls come out and spam my threads,
why 'they' believe 'they' must...rather than 'chat amongst themselves'...well, 'they'
really don't have anything of interest to talk about, besides how 'they' can CONvince
readers that there is nothing of edifying value in my posts...well, if 'they' had or could
make a case that stands on it's own, wouldn't 'they' simply present it in 'their' own
threads, not "waste 'their' time reading mine", and let readers read what they chose
to read, without interruption?
Particularly as what 'they' post, is all the same long ago debunked myth and current
propaganda that is all over the NET and MSM, oh and, cyber bullying dished out to
all who don't buy sell and trade that poisonous cow manure that 'they' peddle.

dixie d wrote:
http://forum.davidicke.com/showpost.php?p=1060290992&postcount=31628
Originally Posted by bkiddo151

Tin-Tin--

You should know that Stephen Spielberg will release a Tin-tin movie this
year based on three of Tin-Tin's adventures: The Crab With The Golden
Claws, The Secret of the Unicorn and Red Reckam's Treasure.

Since a world known movie maker like SS now decides to do a Tin-Tin
movie based on an amalgm of Tin-Tin adventures, what does he want us to know about this?

It's a 3D animation, so it's supposed to appear more
lifelike even though it's animated.

There is an article on it today...

The Adventures Of Tintin: The Secret Of The Unicorn – review
Well, I believe this reviewer is as scared of the dead 'Herge'
as most Aussies are of the dead Bradman, to be honest about,
well, all 'Herge's' UNDERLING'S and BETTER'S Talents, but,
he also seems to hint strongly, that 'David Icke's' 'tintin',
is as 'DEAD' as SS & PJ's 'Tin-Tin's' EYES.


The Adventures Of Tintin: The Secret Of The Unicorn – review
"Steven Spielberg's 3D adaptation of the
Hergé classic lacks a twinkle in the eye
.
...that two dots of ink from a Belgian
cartoonist’s pen can express more wit and artistry
than £82 million of the best 3D special effects
Hollywood can conjure.

The difference, you see, is in the eyes. And in this

first of three planned Tintin films by Steven Spielberg
and Peter Jackson, the eyes do not have it
‘it’ being that vital, twinkling difference
that separates a character worth caring about
from a dummy in a Debenhams’ shop window.
...its starting point, the film hares from the cobbled
streets of ... well, wherever it is Tintin lives,..."


Interesting to, how this 'Tin-Tin' LOOKS MORE LIKE
'David Icke's' 'tintin', than the comic Book character.
Right down to the jumper 'tintin' wore, every day,
for 3 weeks, but refusing to ever have it washed.

In fact, there is so much alike between, this 'Tin-Tin',
'David Icke's' 'tintin', and Julian Assange, that it's very,
very hard, to not see them as all from and of, the same,
family blood and spirit. The same, always 'moving',
original 'traveling salesman', 'silver-tongued', spirit,
that first sold the belief that, knowing death, would be
'a good thing'.

Oh, and that "400 year old secret" - well it's much older,
and not so secret - but the "400 years" does tie right in,
with when 'The Dutch' Boast of 'their' 'Relationship' starting
with The Glorious Land Promised To Israel, O'Zion = 'their'
belief that 'they' have 'the rights' to it.

Oh and people, please remember, it is the 'tintin' at DIF,
who claimed to be 'Jesus' and "rewriting The Bible", while
supporting murderous thugs who attack an old woman for
asking others to re-view The Bible in the revealing light of
what modern studies and science has debunked of the myths
and lies we've been mislead to believe it contains.
The modern studies and science that actually support the
Whole Age of the Whole World and All Peoples, AS THE BIBLE
DESCRIBES.


"it's supposed to appear more lifelike
even though it's animated."

JEREMIAH 51:1-64
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Jer&c=51&v=1&t=KJV#1
6,
“FLEE out of the midst of Babylon,
and provide escape each one for his own soul.
Do not be rendered inanimate through her error.
For it is the time of vengeance belonging to Jehovah.
There is treatment that he is paying back to her.

6, Flee out 5127 of the midst 8432 of Babylon 894,
and deliver 4422 every man 376 his soul 5315:
be not cut off 1826 in her iniquity 5771;
for this [is] the time 6256 of the LORD'S 3068
vengeance 5360; he will render 7999
unto her a recompence 1576.


And yes, as usual I just asked about this post, 'randomly'=IN FAITH,
opened the New World Translation, my 'reading' version of The Bible,
and that reference to "INANIMATE", out of every subject under the sun
that it covers, is where I opened it. And if you go to the KJV, Strong's
links, and read all the full, descriptive, meanings (click on the numbers,
and keep clicking, through to the root meanings), you will see that it is,
a very fitting and timely line and chapter, for this post.
true lilly wrote:
''The fresh terrases, lawns and grottos
with distinct plantations of the tallest
and most stately trees I ever saw in any
nobleman's grounds in England,
cannot excel in beauty those whose
nature now presented to our view,''

...so how did "they" then make the world
'believe', the "unlivable
desert" lie?
And WHY?


I just watched this on ABC24,
the link to the video of the programme is below,
and it shows much more than the news report.


The Biggest Estate (on Earth)
Published:Friday, October 14, 2011 7:30 AEDT
Expires:Thursday, January 12, 2012
7:30 AEDT

http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2011/10/14/3340516.htm?site=canberra§ion=news

Local author and historian Bill Gammage has a new book - with a
revolutionary perspective on the land management techniques of
Aborigines.

Tags:
nonfiction-books, history, indigenous-culture, aboriginal, australia, canberra-2600

Burning questions
Adrian Hyland
October 15, 2011

Landscapes by artists such as John Glover
depict the ''park-like'' Australia described by early settlers.

WHEN Charles Darwin visited our shores, his impressions
of the indigenous inhabitants were far from complimentary: ''Harmless
savages wandering about without knowing where they shall sleep at night
and gaining their livelihood by hunting in the woods.''

If the most innovative thinker of the 19th century could
be so blinkered by his own preconceptions, so absurdly wrong, what hope
was there for his compatriots? Aboriginal Australians were regarded as
rootless, drifting, blown about by the wind and the weather, dependent
on the vagaries of a brutal climate to scratch out a precarious
existence in the harshest of environments.

Such perceptions were informed by 19th-century theories
of racial superiority, insinuated their way into the
''smooth-the-dying-pillow'' approach that characterised much of the
20th century and have echoes in the welfare dependence that racks
Aboriginal communities today.

The Biggest Estate on Earth
by Bill Gammage.

In The Biggest Estate on Earth, ANU historian Bill Gammage
demolishes this view, demonstrating that Aboriginal people
not only brilliantly adapted to this environment - they created it.

Our vision of what pre-European Australia was like tends
to come from stretches of ''wilderness'', from scrub-covered ranges and
tangled gullies. But such does not seem to have been the experience of
the first Europeans.

''The fresh terrases, lawns and grottos with distinct plantations
of the tallest and most stately trees I ever saw in any
nobleman's grounds in England, cannot excel in beauty those whose nature
now presented to our view,''
commented First Fleeter Arthur Bowes
Smyth on the landscape around Sydney. Similar things were said of
Melbourne, where John Batman was enraptured: ''The most beautiful sheep
pasturage I ever saw in my life.''

Such comments ring out from the pioneers Gammage quotes
and the image is reinforced by the work of the colonial artists.


The trees were scattered, the scrub was thin. The soil
was so soft and dark you could sink a hand into it with ease. The rivers
were crystal clear. The plains were rich with game, the skies dark
with birds, the seas black with fish.

The picture Gammage paints is reminiscent of an armillary sphere:
an astonishing framework of interwoven circles and rings.

The life cycles of the flora and fauna - kangaroos and
koalas, grasses and yams and spear trees - were intimately connected,
perfectly balanced. What doesn't seem to have occurred to the settlers
was that, like the sphere, this intricate world was crafted by the
hand of man.

His thesis revolves around several environmental dilemmas:
how was it that plant species with diverse ecological
imperatives were living in such close proximity? Why was there grass
growing on the best soil in the valleys and scattered trees with little
undergrowth on the heights? How could species with such different fire
requirements be growing near each other?

He examines the works of the pioneer painters and
observes ribbon gum, blackwood and native cherry growing side by side.
Some trees need fire every five years, others every 10 years, others
not for centuries. In a landscape by John Glover, he uncovers evidence
of three distinct fire regimes: he finds wallaby traps and sanctuaries,
scattered trees that were useful for spears or medicine.

How could all this complexity have come about?

The logical answer, he concludes, was that it was
deliberately crafted by the first Australians.
And their main technique of control was fire.

The fire-stick was the most important implement in the
Aboriginal tool kit. They burned constantly: anthropologist Rhys Jones
estimates that a single family group would have lit about 5000 fires a
year. They burned to clear tracks, control insects, produce the ''green
pick'' that attracted game.

It was all done with greater skill and knowledge t
han white Australia could begin to imagine.

In Gammage's words, ''what the ecosystem needed, it got''.

Carefully crafted fire is the key to the incredible
complexity of the world he describes: it can trigger species to
regenerate (yam daisy) or sprout (banksia, waratah), to flower
(Christmas Bell) or germinate (hakea, heath), to die but set seed
(mountain ash). Fire provides essential nutrients, it activates soil
bacteria.

Aboriginal people viewed fire as a critical element of
the natural world, their burning based upon knowledge refined over tens
of thousands of years. Their fires were locally based, firmly
controlled, carefully crafted towards the needs of the landscape.

Inevitably, fire entered the Dreaming; walk into any
Aboriginal art gallery in the country and you are likely to come across a
painting whose motif is fire. Gammage quotes an elder from Arnhem
Land: ''You sing the country before you burn it - in your mind you see
the fire, you know where it is going, you know where it will stop.''

Then, in 1788, a new coloniser arrived, one more
interested in profit than knowledge. The carefully prepared landscape,
with its valleys and plains of waving grass, was an irresistible
temptation. Those areas most critical to maintaining the indigenous
ecology - the ''templates'', as Gammage describes them, where an
abundance of water, flora and fauna intersected - took on another value:
as pasture for sheep and cattle, as sources of profit.

But the settlers' understanding of the bush and its fire
regime was minimal. In some cases, they burnt to clear the land; their
burning was wild and indiscriminate. But then, as settlement became more
developed, as they acquired houses and towns, they attempted to
eradicate fire, just as they had eradicated the original inhabitants.

The results were disastrous.

Within a few years, with the destruction of Aboriginal
society and the disappearance of its fire regimes, much of the land the
explorers described as ''park-like'' was covered in thick scrub. Within
16 years, Victoria was ravaged by the inferno of Black Thursday. Ever
since, these monstrous conflagrations have roared out of the bush like
the vengeful ghosts of a vanquished world.

The Biggest Estate on Earth
is history of the most readable kind:
a fascinating amalgam of scientific enigma, bush lore and anecdote.


Gammage has an almost Borgesian instinct for capturing
complexity in a single sentence: after discussing the interweaving
trade routes that criss-cross the continent and along which objects
from seeds to shells could be transferred, he blithely comments:
''Anything could go anywhere.''

This is a beautiful and profound piece of writing, one
that has importance for us all. We live in the most fire-prone
environment on Earth. It was built to burn. Aboriginal people thrived
in this environment for thousands of years, their chief defences being
mobility, continual burning and an intricate understanding of the bush.

In Australia today, when we have lost that mobility and
when we burn in only the most haphazard manner, it is more important
than ever we understand our environment.
The Biggest Estate on Earth
makes a significant contribution
to that understanding.

■Adrian Hyland
is the author of Kinglake-350.

Bill Gammage discusses
The Biggest Estate on Earth

at noon on October 27
at the Wheeler Centre,
176 Little Lonsdale Street, city.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/books/burning-questions-20111014-1lote.html#ixzz1axLa71ZV

''The fresh terrases, lawns and grottos
with distinct plantations of the tallest
and most stately trees I ever saw in any
nobleman's grounds in England,
cannot excel in beauty those whose
nature now presented to our view,''

...so how did "they" then make the world
'believe', the "unlivable
desert" lie,
for over 400 years?
And WHY?

ISAIAH 41

Keep silence 2790 before me,
O islands 339; and let the people 3816
renew 2498 [their] strength 3581:
let them come near 5066 ;
then let them speak 1696 :
let us come near 7126 together 3162
to judgment 4941.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=41&v=1&t=KJV#1
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